Trak_Day

B18c1 with LSD and gsr tranny in 94 civic coupe
I am looking for 450whp on pump gas and 500+ on race fuel.

I am looking at my options and would like to hear/see some testimonials on certain clutches!

Exedy Cermatalic? thin plate? thick plate?
Exedy Hyper Single
Clutchmasters stage 5

i would like to know your opinions on these and if you have any other suggestions my ears/eyes are open.

Thanks in Advance


Modified by DroppedGSR at 9:09 PM 2/17/2004

BoostedSi

i've seen a lot of people have problems with their cm stage 5. Personally, i've never had a problem with my cm stage 4 tho.

Trak_Day

what kind of problems?

ekb18c

I'm going to tell you but you probaly won't listen to me.
Do yourself a favor and get a tilton for that much power.
I went through 2 stage 5's in a span of 6 months.

Here was my setup. I made 450whp @ 14psi on pump gas driven my car on a daily basis (get to work and back.) This last for about 6 months. The splines of the disc were disintegrated. Not only that but the stage 5 didn't really engaged very well. Stage 5 will hold up fine on a strictly Drag Queen but not for daily driver.


So you do the math and see if the cost of a tilton is more??

retail price of a stage 5 = $395
retail price of a clutch install = $350
Cost of tow truck to tow home when your clutchs goes = ~$75
Cost of tow truck to shop = ~$75
Time with your car = PRICELESS

You can take my advice to heart or you can ignore me, but remember I was in your shoes a few months ago. Now, I wished I would have went with a tilton first instead of going the cheap route and doing 2 stage 5's. So in the long run I spent more money than I would have spent if i just opted for the tilton in the first place.

Trak_Day

I can understand completely what your saying. Which Tilton do you suggest, I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, all the money i am putting into this thing, no sense skimping on the clutch... suggestion on tilton!?

EKb18c...pm me if you are interested in parting the wheels off of your car!

Dublocivic

just go for the ceramic.. no need for anything more.

Trak_Day

care to elaborate...because thats not so convincing...nothing like ekb18c telling me to go with Tilton

ekb18c

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DroppedGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can understand completely what your saying. Which Tilton do you suggest, I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, all the money i am putting into this thing, no sense skimping on the clutch... suggestion on tilton!?

EKb18c...pm me if you are interested in parting the wheels off of your car!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Get the twin disc ceramic

JDEM1

tilton.. if you don't have the money, ACT Xtreme with 6puck will do..

ACTman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DroppedGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Which Tilton do you suggest, I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, all the money i am putting into this thing, no sense skimping on the clutch... suggestion on tilton!?</TD></TR></TABLE>Don't waste your time on the ceramic Tilton, go for the Carbon/carbon. It shifts faster, takes more heat, and won't warp like the ceramic. Great stuff, just get ready to spend some serious $$$.

If not, IMO our parts (XTR6) can give Tilton ceramic a run for their money. It depends on what you are most concerned about. If it's ultimate torque capacity, the Tilton has us beat. If it is tolerance to heat or good shifting, or longevity, I think we have an advantage. Another note: Ours parts are SFI certified, Tilton is not, so if you need to comply with drag race rules, keep it in mind.

Kataku2K3

Personally I only like ACT and Tilton but that's just me... The problem is in the past we've been able to slip even the ACT Maxx Xtreme pressure plates which 6 puck disks at ~500whp... Nowadays we only run Tilton (w/ cerametallic disks) on the FI motors and they hold up just fine for 500whp+ track/street driving... The carbon/carbons are a little nicer on your tranny so I would definately recommend them... If you go with a Tilton setup I would also recommend running the hydro throwout bearing as it makes your pedal super light, basically like an ACT HD pressure plate... It's not totally necessary as you can still easily drive on the street without it... Just my $0.02

Trak_Day

The car will be n the street more than the track so... I am thinking I want something more streetable. This car will be on long drives pretty often as well, like 500 miles a wknd like every 3-4 weeks! I sunno if that helps but any more help would be nice!

Trak_Day

anyone else? I still am undecided and need opinions!

Silverbeast

My opinion is CM stage 4.

Mikes01GSR

What about the RPS Carbon/Carbon Clutches, you also get a new flywheel with
them. Check them out at http://www.turboclutch.com, My goals are close to yours with
the single disc carbon/ carbon they give it a 500ft/lb rating. I bought mine
previously owned but not used.

Trak_Day

Yeah you bought your RPS from John (the owner of the shop i go to...lol) I am looking into the RPS street Maxx

hpfsi

I'm in the same boat - so what is the rebuild situation on the ceramic twin disc tiltons? How many miles can one expect to get out of this clutch, and is it at all rebuildable or do you just toss out this $1200 clutch once it becomes worn? It seems like this clutch is the best compromise between a full carbon clutch and a serious puck-type clutch setup. I was stoked on the RPS single disc carbon clutches and seriously wanted to buy the one that Vaportrail was selling, but as it turned out RPS even admitted that they don't hold the power that they were designed to, hence their reason for discontinuing all but two single disc carbon models. That sucks! When will carbon be affordable enough for the masses? (by masses I mean the power hungry 400whp+ H-T crew )


ACTman - could you elaborate on how a single puck-style disc will last as long/longer than a twin disc as well as take more heat? Just curious as the difference in surface area is somewhat significant.


Modified by hpfsi at 11:14 PM 2/19/2004

ForceThis!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDEM1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ACT Xtreme with 6puck will do.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was led to believe that set up has VERY harsh engagement.... anyone have experience?

Mikes01GSR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hpfsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm in the same boat - so what is the rebuild situation on the ceramic twin disc tiltons? How many miles can one expect to get out of this clutch, and is it at all rebuildable or do you just toss out this $1200 clutch once it becomes worn? It seems like this clutch is the best compromise between a full carbon clutch and a serious puck-type clutch setup. I was stoked on the RPS single disc carbon clutches and seriously wanted to buy the one that Vaportrail was selling, but as it turned out RPS even admitted that they don't hold the power that they were designed to, hence their reason for discontinuing all but two single disc carbon models. That sucks! When will carbon be affordable enough for the masses? (by masses I mean the power hungry 400whp+ H-T crew )

ACTman - could you elaborate on how a single puck-style disc will last as long/longer than a twin disc as well as take more heat? Just curious as the difference in surface area is somewhat significant.


Modified by hpfsi at 11:14 PM 2/19/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

When did RPS say this? John said the one I got from him is suppose to hold over 500ft/lbs and it's just a single disk, Even with my 84.5mm on race gas I doubt I'll hit to much over 400 ft/lbs. As of now I'm not worried.

ACTman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hpfsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ACTman - could you elaborate on how a single puck-style disc will last as long/longer than a twin disc as well as take more heat? Just curious as the difference in surface area is somewhat significant.Modified by hpfsi at 11:14 PM 2/19/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>Our clutch has a much broader working range. Our pressure plate will continue to provide good clamp load to a wear of about .080" where the Tilton can only have about .025" of wear. The surface area is less on our disc, but we seldom have puck discs wear out or get overheated. Our disc contact patch is also wider and larger diameter. The most significant difference is that our pressure plate and conventional flywheel is thicker and heavier than the Tilton's thin, light pressure plate ring and floater. If you slip it much at all the parts are prone to overheat, wear and warp since there is less material to act as a heat sink. Ask Tilton and they will tell you that the ceramic is not meant to slip very much. It's also going to be fairly loud for street use because of floater rattle.

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to bag on Tilton at all. It's not like they are fragile by any means. They make great parts, but they should be used as recommended. If your concern is holding big power, they can do it. Just keep in mind that there is always a tradeoff. The Tilton ceramic are ideal for super-light road race cars having dogbox transmissions that spin the tires out of the pits rather than slipping the clutch. For the rest of the race the driver doesn't even use his left leg.

1fstevo

The floater buzz is quite loud on my CM ceramic twin disc. The clutch in my opinion isn't for the street at all. I get tired just driving the car around. I believe Tilton ceramic twin disc acts the same way. I doubt there is much differences in drivibility.

Kataku2K3

I don't mind driving the Tilton twin disks on the street at all... Like I said before, if you're running the Tilton hydro throwout bearing I probably couldn't tell you the difference between it and an ACT HDR6 setup... Without it the only difference is the pedal feels a little heavier than say an XXR6, still easily streetable... That's just me, tho most of us feel this way...

hpfsi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mikes01GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

When did RPS say this? John said the one I got from him is suppose to hold over 500ft/lbs and it's just a single disk, Even with my 84.5mm on race gas I doubt I'll hit to much over 400 ft/lbs. As of now I'm not worried.</TD></TR></TABLE>

After you beat me to that clutch I called HorsepowerFreaks to get one. Joe was the first one that told me that the carbon/carbon singles were all but cancelled from production. I didn't believe him at first so I emailed RPS. Their reply was, "We do not offer this from the stand point that RPS isn't satisfied with the results. But, we do see what is expected in the Twin disc." I'm not sure what this means exactly as far as #'s go, but let me know when you get that clutch in - I'm very interested to see how it works.

ACTman - thanks for the reply - that was exactly what I was looking for

Trak_Day

I have done some research thus far and have come between 2 clutches.
The RPS sport Maxx with the RPS flywheel
and
The Tilton cermatalic with flywheel

Both have the holding power i am looking at! and affordable enough for me to get my car on the road!

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

[QUOTE=DroppedGSR]
Exedy Cermatalic? thin plate? thick plate?
Exedy Hyper Single
Clutchmasters stage 5

QUOTE]

I personally am a big fan of the EXEDY Hypersingle, and have used it in a couple of Honda applications.. They run great, have little noise, and is able to handle a ton of torque and at the same time are rather streetable. Many people (present company excluded, of course) use the Tilton clutch, and have not driven on anything like that before. With the fact that you're driving in the street, which could wear the clutch differently in TRAFFIC JAM/ Real world conditions, you could destroy a disc very quickly and easily, and your learning curve for getting used to the clutch will be much higher. You'll hate parking or backing up.

Think about real world application, and not just Peak HP and Torque. Plenty have used the thick ceramic on a 350+whp car, and have run just fine...

But I guess since I'm only 45min away from DAIKIN/ EXEDY corp. I might be a little partial. Hell, even the ACT Line uses DAIKIN CLUTCH Pressure plates..