skyman88

Hey,
I recently had some head work done by a very reputable shop in MA. I put my motor and head back into my '92 DX body, reinstalled turbo, broke the mootr in,... etc.. Fast forward 330 miles later: an LMA dies on the intake side of my head. I speak with the machinest and he tells me I had one bad LMA that he replaced when he was going through my head.

I order 8 new LMA's and install them a few weeks ago. I find out that the one LMA that the machinest replaced is the one that died.



So I replace all 8 LMA's in one day and get the car running again. 220 miles later, yesterday, my head starts ticking again. I stop and listen to my head and sure enough the SAME LMA is dead again. That means that piston two has killed three LMA's on the intake side. Any ideas on what is wrong? Possible reasons why just that LMA is being destroyed? Any help at all is appreciated.

Thanks,
~SKY~

Blind-Fashion

What cams are you running?

non-VTEC

what cams
what valve springs
what retainers
what were your valve lash clearence specs

that very odd.......those things should last forever.....kinda.....

Dragline

Maybe lack of oil

skyman88

Hey,
Stock everything. Every piece in the head is stock and the LMA's that I put in were OEM... I have an oil pressure gauge and my oil pressure has been fine. I don't know where the LMA's mainly get oil from. One thing I didn't do when I installed them was change the "vtec pins", (the pins that keep the cam shafts from rotating).

~SKY~

Blind-Fashion

Did you oil the new one before you put it in? i have had one "hang up" before because of not oiling it when it was new. That would explain both the new ones going out.

-Josh

onePOINTsix

iwas told to soak new LMAs in motor oil overnight before installing them... done this on 2 sets of new LMAs and no problems thus far

Blind-Fashion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onePOINTsix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">iwas told to soak new LMAs in motor oil overnight before installing them... done this on 2 sets of new LMAs and no problems thus far</TD></TR></TABLE>

hybrid_KJ

Repalce them with the LMA's off of a 2000 prelude. They are like $8 each and are a spring so you won't have to worry about a hydraulic failure. They fit fine you just have to add a .040" shim under them to get them to the same height as the b series. They will handle 12.5mm+ of lift.

Forrest Gump 9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_KJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Repalce them with the LMA's off of a 2000 prelude. They are like $8 each and are a spring so you won't have to worry about a hydraulic failure. They fit fine you just have to add a .040" shim under them to get them to the same height as the b series. They will handle 12.5mm+ of lift.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup, or just get the ITR's one.

skyman88

Hey,
The old LMA's were run with dyno oil and soaked over night in it before installation. The second set was soaked in synthetic oil for just under 24 hours prior to installation.

Buying new LMA's with a higher spring constant will help how? Is lack of oil the only thing that kills LMA's? If so, there will still be a lack of oil. I am looking for the cause of the failure, I don't think simply replacing the LMA's will achieve anything. Correct me if I'm wrong.

"hybrid_KJ", what do you mean by hydraulic failure, the B18C1 LMA's have a progressive spring inside of them as well.

~SKY~

hybrid_KJ

I choose my words wrong. I've worked on alot of BMW's with hydraulic lifters. What I meant was an internal failure of the LMA. The 2000 Prelude LMA's are just a spring, no internal parts or anything to go bad or collapse.

Unsivil_audio

Also, I dont think, just cause it ticks that there is anything wrong. I believe its normal with some LMA's. Take a look at DSM's, they tick all the time. But its perfectly normal and wont affect performance.

EDIT: nevermind, looking at the pic. Thats definetely not normal.

skyman88

Hey,
Well the modes of failure are different between the two LMA's in that spot that failed. The first one "cracked" so the top nipple part could be pulled out of the outer casing. The second one is still attached but as you can see in the picture above is not right. The spring sounds like it cracked and is in two pieces now. I am gonig to order another couple of LMA's and look for oil problems and burs or debris anywhere near the LMA. I want to make sure my cam shaft was not damaged as well from the lack of pressure on that follower. Any other thoughts?

~SKY~

BERT-O

These are the OEM LMA's, not OEM source like "topline"?

DavidR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_KJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I choose my words wrong. I've worked on alot of BMW's with hydraulic lifters. What I meant was an internal failure of the LMA. The 2000 Prelude LMA's are just a spring, no internal parts or anything to go bad or collapse. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Umm, ALL the LMAs in D, B and H are spring, not hydraulic lifters. On any of them you can press down and it returns to its original posistion like a spring, unlike a hydraulic lifter which will not, until oil pressure is applied to the back side.

skyman88

Hey,
As far as I know they are OEM, I will check when I call my machinest today. I'm going to look for burs or other imperfections when I replace this one again to see if maybe it isn't sitting flush. No other thoughts?

~SKY~

turbosi03

signing in... I'll post again if I find I have a simular problem.

btw, which cylinder was this?

Blind-Fashion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skyman88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey,
No other thoughts?

~SKY~</TD></TR></TABLE>


Good luck

skyman88

Hey,
I just got off of the phone with the machinest and sure enough... they are Top Line LMA's. So now I have 8 new Top Line LMA's in my valve train, of which one is already dead. So do I leave the "good" ones in and just replace the intake one on cylinder 2? Or do I replace all of the intake or all of them at once? I guess the price difference should have been a good indicator of the quality....

I still have the stock 7 that didn't fail (but have 120k miles on them), so is it worth it to reinstall those over brand new lower quality ones? I think I'm going to bite the bullet and just order 4 new OEM LMA's for now and do just the intake side... At least I only have to pull one cam gear, one cam shaft, one rocker shaft, and 4 rocker assemblies......

~SKY~

null.

i would rather replace them with OEM and save money and just get the prelude ones

skyman88

Hey,
Well I just don't like the idea of needed 0.04" shims in order to achieve the correct LMA height. I would rather kill any possibility of problem arising from that and use the stock OEM for the b18C1.

I order a set of 4 tonight and will just be doing the intake side... If I have to take my upper journal surfaces for my camshafts out but don't touch my exhaust cam, is there any reason to adjust valve lash on that side?

~SKY~

1SlowB16EF

where can you get this .040 shim?

DavidR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skyman88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey,
I just got off of the phone with the machinest and sure enough... they are Top Line LMA's. So now I have 8 new Top Line LMA's in my valve train, of which one is already dead. So do I leave the "good" ones in and just replace the intake one on cylinder 2? Or do I replace all of the intake or all of them at once? I guess the price difference should have been a good indicator of the quality....

I still have the stock 7 that didn't fail (but have 120k miles on them), so is it worth it to reinstall those over brand new lower quality ones? I think I'm going to bite the bullet and just order 4 new OEM LMA's for now and do just the intake side... At least I only have to pull one cam gear, one cam shaft, one rocker shaft, and 4 rocker assemblies......

~SKY~</TD></TR></TABLE>

Replace all on one cam so pressure is equal across the whole cam.
Leave the stock on the other side.

Yes, readjust all valves after you've removed the cam caps.

BERT-O

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skyman88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey,
I just got off of the phone with the machinest and sure enough... they are Top Line LMA's. So now I have 8 new Top Line LMA's in my valve train, of which one is already dead. So do I leave the "good" ones in and just replace the intake one on cylinder 2? Or do I replace all of the intake or all of them at once? I guess the price difference should have been a good indicator of the quality....

I still have the stock 7 that didn't fail (but have 120k miles on them), so is it worth it to reinstall those over brand new lower quality ones? I think I'm going to bite the bullet and just order 4 new OEM LMA's for now and do just the intake side... At least I only have to pull one cam gear, one cam shaft, one rocker shaft, and 4 rocker assemblies......

~SKY~</TD></TR></TABLE>

Topline, I see