turbodohcsi

ok, quick background......new fresh motor, runs great, idles great, no pistons slap, sounds like a stock motor at idle. 84mm darton sleeves with cp pistons and cylinders specifically bored for each piston, eagle rods, all new clevite bearings, b16a head with type r cams and skunk2 cam gears.

ok problem: motor still runs great, compression is 190-200 all the way across. after the first oil change (maybe 75 miles) i have a quiet knock, and i know i put enough oil back in there. i have a magnetic drain plug, and there was a little metal on there, but it was like fuzzy looking, kinda like those things you might of played with as a kid where you drug the magnet and the lil black pieces of metal followed.... kinda like that except the metal was smaller. the oil looked very clean, no shiney stuff, or brass in it. motor still runs great, runs like stock, and thats on an aem ems basemap with a tuning on the fuel map. so i try to locate the knock by pulling out the stephiscope, i listen all over the bottom of the oil pan and dont hear nothing maybe a lil friction but definetly no knocking. so i put the scope on the valve cover dont really hear anything, so i give up with the scope and start trying to locate it with my ear, and once i decided it was coming from behind my cam gears i put the scope on the back upper right corner of the valve cover and heard a very faint tock tock tock tock. but i could hear it better when i was just listening with my ears. ok, valve have been adjust but i will check them again, but i dont think thats it. IT ONLY DOES IT WHEN THE CAR IS WARM, and it doesnt do it all the time, and when i give it a lil gas the knocking goes away. so im looking for any suggestions on what to check next.

thanks

wade

iTrader: (1)

rid knock always sounds like its in the head

.RTErnie

what is your oil pressure at. What kind of clearances did you run in your bearings? Sounds like your engine is running REALLY loose and you're not getting enough oil pressure at idle when the oil isn't as viscous. basically...you could've spun your bearings.

As far as the metal inside the engine....did you assemble it? IS or WAS there ANY way metal shavings could have been introduced to you engine?

And remember kids Aluminum isn't magetic...and bearings are made of aluminum.

turbodohcsi

yes i am away bearings will not stick to a magnet given the reason why i checked the oil that drained from the motor. and i dont see how any shavings could have made it into the motor, and if thats the case then the knocking should of started a lot sooner. I used clevite bearings which wear to the size they need to be. The oil pressure at idle is.... well whatever the hell the first line on the autometer guage is, and at 4,000 rpm its at 65ish. And once again if it was rock knock shouldnt i of easily heard it throught the oil pan with the stephiscope, and shouldnt it get louder with revs and be there all the time instead of only everynowandthen?

.RTErnie

the one time I had rod knock...you could hear it three lanes over on I-5...so I don't think I can answer you question.

find out what your oil pressure is... and if you're really worried I think you could take your rod end cap off and check the bearings(NOTICE/CAUTION: I don't think you can just bolt it back on...I think you need new rod bolts!!!) good luck.

what kind of clearance did you have on your bearings when you plastigauged the engine?

turbodohcsi

nah, i wouldnt need new rod bolts, and i might end up taking the turbo\downpip\exhaust\oil pan\oil sucker\girdle.... but i really was trying to avoid doing all that. so im still looking for ideas. and like i said oil pressure is very normal from idle to redline

.RTErnie

something is wrong... running it more and talking about it wont fix it. If it is what you describe then you a serious problem. tear it down and play it safe. I'll hear back from your sunday. get in your garage the night is young.

turbodohcsi

anyone else? i finally got it to knock again, only after boosting it a little bit, it still only knocks at idle though. and i pulled out my lil stephiscope and im pretty damn sure i pinpointed the culprit. on the backside of the valvecover right about where the high lobe of the cam would be over the cylinder 2 is where i hear it the loudest with the stephiscope. and once again i dont hear anything from the bottom of the motor with the stephiscope, and thats putting it all over the bottom and the side of the oil pan. but im still looking for advise

jayman322

maybe ur just paranoid, a built motor is sometimes a little more talkative, usually at startup tho, take it to mainstream or back to the builder for a checkup

rpm11

You're sadly mistaken if you think bearings wear to the size they need to be, take your car to someone that knows what they are doing.
Check the LMA's in the area you heard the loudest noise.

turbodohcsi

my understanding of the clevite, king, acl, and most of the other aftermarket bearings are one size fit all. from what my machine shop was telling me the only different sizes they make are standard and like .20 over. but thats just what the machine shop says when i asked them to figure out the exact bearings i need.



Modified by turbodohcsi at 7:33 PM 12/3/2005

turbodohcsi

pictures of the bottom end, let me know if yall think the bearings look normal for "one size is suppose to fit all" bearings

SSBPGSR

the last picture, that bearing looks F'd. its like there was dirt or something on the crank when it was torqued. i would holler at some new bearings and possibly get the crank polished. what i dont understand though, is how the "dirt" didnt put long scratches along the entire bearing when the crank turned. or maybe it sunk into the bearing and scratched the crank, but not the bearing?? can you feel the "Dents" in that bearing with your finger? or is it just part of the "white part" that is shaved off the bearing. im such an engine building n00b, im suprised mine ran for so long after i built it, you need some of the big dogs in here for info.

turbodohcsi

with your fingernail you can fee some of the scratches, but you cant feel the spots. and as for the lines on the crank, you can BARELY feel them on the 2nd main, and you cant feel them on the rest. and when i say barely feel, i mean like you have to focus on feeling them, i felt them the first time, then i didnt, and then i felt them the third time.

B18C1CYA

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbodohcsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, quick background......new fresh motor, runs great, idles great, no pistons slap, sounds like a stock motor at idle. 84mm darton sleeves with cp pistons and cylinders specifically bored for each piston, eagle rods, all new clevite bearings, b16a head with type r cams and skunk2 cam gears.

ok problem: motor still runs great, compression is 190-200 all the way across. after the first oil change (maybe 75 miles) i have a quiet knock, and i know i put enough oil back in there. i have a magnetic drain plug, and there was a little metal on there, but it was like fuzzy looking, kinda like those things you might of played with as a kid where you drug the magnet and the lil black pieces of metal followed.... kinda like that except the metal was smaller. the oil looked very clean, no shiney stuff, or brass in it. motor still runs great, runs like stock, and thats on an aem ems basemap with a tuning on the fuel map. so i try to locate the knock by pulling out the stephiscope, i listen all over the bottom of the oil pan and dont hear nothing maybe a lil friction but definetly no knocking. so i put the scope on the valve cover dont really hear anything, so i give up with the scope and start trying to locate it with my ear, and once i decided it was coming from behind my cam gears i put the scope on the back upper right corner of the valve cover and heard a very faint tock tock tock tock. but i could hear it better when i was just listening with my ears. ok, valve have been adjust but i will check them again, but i dont think thats it. IT ONLY DOES IT WHEN THE CAR IS WARM, and it doesnt do it all the time, and when i give it a lil gas the knocking goes away. so im looking for any suggestions on what to check next.

thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>


Bearings look fine , just some scoring from dirt , the knocking you hear could be the valves needing adjustment or a sticky lma , you will drive your self crazy listening for a knock or sound , also you need to think about piston to wall clearence and how loose it was built ??? also the glitter in the oil is from the rings seating it is normal , just run good oil and never get on it until oil is up to full temp so all the condensation has boiled out of the oil and you dont waste a bearing. one other thing what bottom end do you have and when you got the pistons did you get them for a b16a head ????

turbodohcsi

ok dude, i like the information your giving me, if you honestly believe in what your saying. and the pistons were for a b16a head (cp pistons 9.7:1 cr w\ b16a head), actually race engineering said i could use them with either head, but i wanted the compression ratio that a b16a head would give me so i used that head. and where the stephiscope picked up the most sound was the head, so i looked at where the sound was coming from and the valve lash was a lil large, and should my lma's be like very easy to push down? cause i push them down and when the come back up and either line up with the other rockers, or make contact with the cam, they make the sound i heard. but im still paranoid about the bottom end

B18C1CYA

the lma's and valve lash are what you are hearing , but you have to remember that your motor is not stock and will not sound stock, but the pistons will only give you the correct compression ratio with a b16a head or a b18c5 head , ss if the pistons are for say a gsr then you have even lower compression then you wanted , as Earl on the site he can explain the heads and combustion camber size to you. but i think you are just being over parinoid imo,

0VtecKiDD

i wouldnt reuse those bearings personally, i would change them out.

the noise you are hearing could be Valve adjusment or LMAs , but i would plastiguage and use new rod bearings to BE SURE since you didnt the first time around. its for piece of mind really

turbodohcsi

ok, i can go with part of the valvetrain being what i heard, but i think i will go ahead and change out the bearings since everything is already apart.

B18C1CYA

yeah it cant hurt just check your clearences and clean everything realy well,

turbodohcsi

i dont know if i put this in here, but i noticed what i thought was GOLD dust in my oil pan.....not copper. but under further eximination i realized that it was silver dust just being tinted gold by the goldish oil (oil was brand new). so thats kinda good news i think.

SPOOLINmatt

i smashed a rod bearing once, and it only knocked between 2 and 2500-3000 rpm, no where above that or below. but i had just smashed it, it hadnt started spinning yet.

turbodohcsi

how do you just smash a rod bearing? did the other bearings look like mine? has anyone have bearings that look like mine and been ok with them?

Importordomestic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbodohcsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how do you just smash a rod bearing?</TD></TR></TABLE>

.RTErnie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbodohcsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how do you just smash a rod bearing?</TD></TR></TABLE>
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