So for the past few months I've been driving turbo diesel box trucks because we've been moving/taking things to storage... and its made me hate laggy turbos and useless power bands even more lol

First truck was a 24ft box truck with a 13 liter isuzu/duramax with a VGT Garrett... really torquey but not fast
Second was another 24ft box with a 6.4 liter ford/international diesel bulked up for commercial use, had a big Borg Warner S400V, again lots of torque, super slow

The truck I'm driving this week is a little 16ft GMC/Isuzu NPR with a 5.2 liter 4 cylinder with a gt25 on it..., its fast, fast enough that I've jumped people off of lights that have tried to get in front of me,

It makes 195hp/495ft lb through a close ratio automatic 6spd and weighs about as much unloaded as my 1 ton truck does, in first and second it will push you into the seat (iknorite lol) and one day I had a guy in a S4 try to get me off a light, I brake boosted at the light and probably jumped him 1-2 cars...

This makes me want to get my small turbo ls/vtec build done so bad.

So screw your "I don't make full boost to 6500 and only have 2000rpm of use able power" cars :p

 

i always laugh at those youtube videos of honda cars that boost at 6K and then have to shift. i plan on making boost in the mid 2k

 

Same here, I want a fat torque curve, not some highway pull queen.

Driving this truck around reinforces that even more. Its just so fun, torque everywhere lol

 

Not all turbo Hondas are like that but I feel you. My 6266 is pretty responsive on my ls vtec with 9.5 compression. Aim for lower peak Ho numbers and run a stroker crank and a gt30 framed turbo will show great torque curve and bump compression up too will increase efficiency and torque

 

This was before i built my block. ..2 yrs ago Stock block h22a4 on a cheap turbo (50 hot 63 cold journal bearing)
299 hp / 204 tq on 5.5 psi. Lots of usable torque
127 hp 181 tq at 3,500

 

I still don't understand why in the hell this is in the Forced Induction Forum. This is General Discussion and Debate garbage. The thought that a Moderator is taking part in this thread is pathetic.

Torque is developed in many different ways. Clearly gear ratio, tire size, displacement, cam sizing, ect affect torque. Add the equation of a turbo sized for high flow at lower RPMs and what do you get? Even trying to compare those engines listed above to ANY Honda engine is idiotic. You may think I am being harsh, but I just don't see the referencing being of any use.

If you are worried about torque, sell your Honda. It is really that simple. You could also build an 1/8th mile car if you are so worried about holeshots. This thread boils down to one thing and one thing only - learn how to build a car for it's designated purpose.

 

ehh. this forced induction forum on honda-tech is just going down the drain lately with all these rude posts by the same people.

 

Cool bro

 

N3va3vaSatisfi3d,
Mabe you didn't understand what he was saying?
Or did i miss something.

 

Lol

That is all

Its just lately all I've seen is how can I make XXX horsepower threads lately and they all seem to want some ungodly numbers that you can never use on the street. People never seem to take the power band into effect, just that magical peak horsepower number, which really doesn't mean **** because its torque that moves a car

 

+1 on that....... Peak power its wow thing but power band hummm ???

 

Exactly, and they always come back and ask why a 300hp car pulled on them... ,maybe it's because that car might only ,make 300hp but it makes peak torque sooner and has a broader power band

I saw it all the time at the shop.. some kid would come in and want 500+ HP and we'd try to tell them how it wouldn't be any fun, they'd do it anyway and about a month later they'd come back and say you were right, change my whole setup

 

It’s a simple formula actually. Displacement, compression, and small turbo.

 

Happens ALL the time, because they saw the youtube video on it. "yeah yeah!! That's what I want"!! -- 3 months later... "Can I have that smaller turbo you were talking about earlier?"

 

Good thing I took a few months off then huh?

I just don't understand where this is all going. I know "The Shodan" remembers when 10-15 years ago 300whp setups were an "shock and awe" setup. This stuff is nothing new. It just reminds me of how cell phones were huge got smaller and now they are getting bigger again. Its been done before, but now it is more efficient than it used to be. Maybe I will be able to get my boy to post up his ~300whp setup (again who honestly gives a crap about dyno numbers) that destroys a lot of cars on the street with the gutless wonder itself. It is ALL about setup, setup, SETUP!!! Make ALL the parts work TOGETHER!!! It is REALLY, that, simple.

 

Precisely... and just how people get hung up about what pressure levels to run to make XXX power, they do the same thing with how much power to do this and that

Now if you're going for an all out drag car that operates in a specific RPM range, then by all means build the car to ,maximize power production within that window. Most street cars don't need more than 350-375 on a typical street tire but if you're running a proper suspension setup and have relatively stick tires (R888, NT01, RT-615, etc) then you probably could get away with 400-450 and have 0 issues, especially if you use boost by gear.

Even our c6 z06 that makes 600rwhp and 590ft/lb is almost pointless on the street in the first three gears... and that's with full suspension work and Michelin pilot sport cups.

I recommend almost all the time that someone debating a high horsepower street car should go for a ride in one... then people would see that it's not all that fun vs. a lower horsepower car.
Its made a lot of people change minds,

Now I'm only talking about purpose built street cars, if you have a dual purpose street/strip car or drag only car then that's a whole different issue. Like I said, I always see people wanting too much power for a car that spends almost all of its time on public roads

 

N3va3vasatisfi3d is once again unsatisfied with a thread......

 

this is a good thread for perspective. many chase the maximum power and forget about real world.

 

What size turbo are you using for your build wantboost? I'm wondering what a small turbo is now, seems most guys think anything under something like a 6266 is small haha.

 

Small turbos cars are definitely more fun to drive around town, but you can build a relatively peppy setup to make 400-500. I like having the integra for all out power pulls on the highway, and the DD will become a corner carver with some modest power.

 

What's considered a properly size turbo for a 1.8 GSR, 9:1 CR, stock b16 cams with a mini-ram manifold, and stock intake manifold? Looking for 430whp on a dyna-pac. Looking among the entry level precision turbos?

 

430whp on 91-93 octane? (aka pump gas) or something with a bit more punch like C16 or anything like that?

 

93 octane, from looking at all my previous setups mac they have all been Garrett 60-1's or the Precision 6031 entry level turbochargers. I was looking at down sizing to the Precision 3431 to have a bit more of a powerband, but I don't think it will make 430whp on RLZ's dyno on pump as easy. Howard doesn't like pushing stock sleeve cars past 400whp on pump gas on his dyno. Took my Garrett 60-1 19psi to make 429whp on RLZ's dyno, i've also accepted the fact that i'm on a budget. As much as I would love a surfer, or gt3076r or even a pte 5858 just not in the books for me at this time:/

here is my old setup for reference Mac...
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/rlz-tuned-gsr-teg-3071676/

 

Good point, because im using a 6262 A.R 63 and from what I read before people say this turbo is to BIG for a street car and its over kill. Basically they made it seem this turbo is better for a track car. I was able to make 440 on 14 psi and it actually spooled pretty quick you can say, full boost at 4500 ish RPM or little more. Over time I have learned a great deal more and seen that high horsepower dosent mean crap unless you can put that power to the ground. Right now im on built motor with stock sleeves still (81.5 bore) 10 CR and I know I cant push it over 450 as pump gas is my limiting factor. With that being said do yall turbo experts think my 6262 is over kill for what i have ? Also TheShodan I read somewhere that your silver surfer turbo made 20psi at 4500 RPM or so? Please correct me if im wrong and also was that test done on a log or equal length manfiold?

 

For 440? Very much so.
Its not how you build boost in 4th from a roll but how you build boost in the lower gears around town.
I bet the 6262 sucks on the street in 2nd...

You could go with a much smaller turbo and have an even better power band and make the same horsepower.

a properly sized turbo would give you a huge linear torque curve, almost like an NA v8.. smooth and consistent, as opposed to that slam you back in the seat torque curve you have now