are external wastegates better? if i plan on just running just a t3, would using the internal wastegate be just as efficent as an external one. it is ALOT more cost efficent thats for sure...

 

external = more hp for sure so.......

COUTO

 

internal wastegates suck at higher boost levels. They tend to not hold boost steady, spike, or have boost creep. If I could do it all over again I'll go with an external .

 

The internal will work just fine and dandy for ya no problems at all....im figuring your running low boost setup? if your going for high boost and big hp numbers def go external....but you wont see much of a difference on a low boost setup between the 2; internal will work fine...

 

WOW. honda-tech is really going down hill. 3 wrong answers in a row.

Put simply, an external wastegate can divert more exhaust gas.

Whats this mean?

several things:

it can open later, making for quicker spool up.
it can flow more gas meaning less boost spikes

does it add horsepower? its not really known for sure, but what is known that divided wastegate dump tube gives more power than wastegate flow that merges immediately with the exhaust from the turbine. it is easily and more comondly divided for external wastegates.

when do you need an external wastegate? when your running lots of boost? NO

when your running lots of boost most of your exhaust is going through the turbine. you need a larger (external) wastegate when your running A) a smaller turbine (specifically smaller a/r housing), or B) your running less boost C) your running a bigger engine (1.6L vs. a ported out 2.0L). this is because your either making more exhaust gas or using less and therefore need to divert more.

hope this clears some things up and stops misinformation....

 

Can I ask then... I nailed all three of those requirements, and I'm running internal... (a) small *** turbine, small turbo, (b) ~6 psi, and (c) a stock B18A.. Should I move to external?

 

you tell me? are you spiking? is it taking a really long time to build boost? an external will probably make for crisper more consistant boost, but plenty of cars run internal fine.

 

Nah, I don't spike or creep really... the turbo's so small, spool up time is pretty quick anyway. I suppose it'd be more obvious on a bigger turbo. I guess internal's fine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00SilverLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WOW. honda-tech is really going down hill. 3 wrong answers in a row.

Put simply, an external wastegate can divert more exhaust gas.

Whats this mean?

several things:

it can open later, making for quicker spool up.
it can flow more gas meaning less boost spikes

does it add horsepower? its not really known for sure, but what is known that divided wastegate dump tube gives more power than wastegate flow that merges immediately with the exhaust from the turbine. it is easily and more comondly divided for external wastegates.

when do you need an external wastegate? when your running lots of boost? NO

when your running lots of boost most of your exhaust is going through the turbine. you need a larger (external) wastegate when your running A) a smaller turbine (specifically smaller a/r housing), or B) your running less boost C) your running a bigger engine (1.6L vs. a ported out 2.0L). this is because your either making more exhaust gas or using less and therefore need to divert more.

hope this clears some things up and stops misinformation....</TD></TR></TABLE>


No **** there buddy.....i was just stating that he would be fine with an internal wastegate, it wouldnt be totally necessary for external...I agree with "about" everything you said ....I run external i kno how it works, i have seen many higher boost dsm's (all my friends) in my area run internal with 18-20psi and it works well, didnt say it was the best but they dont have many problems with it.....The internal will work just fine especially if you just dont really want to spend the extra cash...and besides he never really stated his setup so i was figuring he was just doing a low budget - low boost setup to have some street fun....the internal will work fine is all i stated but i misinformed for even saying that (i just didnt get technical) sorry....

 

good post

 

&gt;&gt;WOW. honda-tech is really going down hill. 3 wrong answers in a row.&lt;&lt;

Oh crap! The hall monitor is here!

&gt;&gt;Put simply, an external wastegate can divert more exhaust gas.
Whats this mean?
several things:
it can open later, making for quicker spool up.
it can flow more gas meaning less boost spikes
does it add horsepower? its not really known for sure, but what is known that divided wastegate dump tube gives more power than wastegate flow that merges immediately with the exhaust from the turbine. it is easily and more comondly divided for external wastegates.&lt;&lt;

Well at least you used the word "can".... But for 99.89% of this list you couldn't squeeze a gnat's *** between the real-life performance difference. However, the price difference between internal and external wastegates (not to mention the associated plumbing issues if you want to even pretend you're street legal) is more like a horses *** worth of trouble for most of us.

Cliff notes: Internal WG's are just fine for the *VAST* majority of boosted Hondas, and the reduced dump tube headaches are a nice perk.

 

external is good for more bling, more cost and more exhaust flow under full boost (if it's open loop) from my experience.

Like it was stated above, most people just don't need them. It's an easy sell from a retailers point of view though; loud, shiny, and on race cars yo! just like N1 mufflers haha

i'm sure there are cases where it is necessary, like if you cant get an internally gated turbine housing or whatever. no hate intended

 

sorry for coming off strong but it annoys me when people spread wrong information.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fsp31 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But for 99.89% of this list you couldn't squeeze a gnat's *** between the real-life performance difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


Not true. F-Max has dyno graphs showing gains of at least 40 hp by switching from a closed loop external wastegate (about the same as internal) vs. open to atmosphere. Thats a bit more than a gnat's *** worth of performance.

Internally gated turbos that have no division between the turbine exhaust and the wastegate exhaust loose power no if ands or buts about it. When the wategate gas mixes with the turbine exhaust gas it causes turbulance, which increases heat and pressure. this causes the need for more exhaust manifold pressure to get the same boost thus loosing power. if the internal gate is divided, then it can be plumbed back in smoothly (or even vented to atmosphere) and can probably perform on par with external gates. Either way, on a 1.8L 8500rpm engine running low boost w/ a 3" exhaust...a internal gate will not control boost as consistantly and crisply as an external.

 

&gt;&gt;Not true. F-Max has dyno graphs showing gains of at least 40 hp by switching from a closed loop external wastegate (about the same as internal) vs. open to atmosphere. Thats a bit more than a gnat's *** worth of performance.&lt;&lt;

I'd be interested in seeing more details concerning the way the comparison was performed because that number is more than suspect for the power levels made by the "99.89%" I referred to.

BTW, the vast majority of "O2 housings" out there do actually separate the WG and turbine for at least a few inches. Can't remember what the ideal distance is, but there is certainly a diminishing return involved. For example, the O2 housing on the new Lancer is quite nice. From the look of it, the streams are separated for several inches.

 

let me just say my situation and you tell me which is best...


GSR, t3 which has stock internal wastegate @ 8 psi

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dunkd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are external wastegates better? if i plan on just running just a t3, would using the internal wastegate be just as efficent as an external one. it is ALOT more cost efficent thats for sure...</TD></TR></TABLE>

yall have digressed so much its re-frickin-diculous... come on kids stop bickering and simply say internal and external wastegates are both good in their own respects. The almighty dollar still comes into play...you get what you pay for.

nuff said

 

external because it sound so good and looks so hard and if it matters it will probley make mo power

 

we have to run externals cause most of us honda people run low boost and pretty decent sized snails.. those DSM boys running 18+ psi can do the internal W/G's