yellowturbo

Ok so I was supposed to go retune my car today with Hondata ( my AEM EMS is for sale btw ) to fix a few problems ; misfiring issue at around 4000rpm that is maybe related to what I found... and to get a better idle.

So last weekend I did a kind of general inspection of the car to make sure that everything would be okay.

One thing that was on my ''to do'' list was to change my ZEX 59300 cam to replace it for my stock Z6 cam because since I installed this cam I always had problem to get a good idle wet the car was really hot and I never trusted it... I always had to adjust my a lot looser than the spec to get a ''better'' idle and it was really noisy.

I also remember that when I changed the stock cam for the ZEX cam I had a lot of difficulty to remove one valve ( the one who is the worst now ) but it was not like on the pictures yet.

So my diagnostic is...

the Crower valve spring are too ''thick'' so when the cam read its full lift the spring is just to compressed like a shock absorber that bottom out and when I was running the stock cam it was on the limit so thats why it wasnt too bad... but now with the ZEX cam it was just too much.

So thats the reason why I had to adjust my valves looser than the specs to ''help'' the situation.

Does that mean the the valves spring are just bad or my valves seats are just not deep enought ???? Thats my question.

Anyway its really bad because I have to remove the head, change all the valves, maybe the retainer... $$$ Also, im gonna need the guide because its gonna be a real mess to remove these valves..... but I am really lucky that I found this before the valves just drop into the cylinders !!!

Here is the pictures, its not all the valves that are the same but the worst are on the exhaust side... they look like someone had fun with a hammer... :

exhaust side, look at the second one, that was the worst :






Look at this... I have to call my tuner to let him know that I cant be there this afternoon.

Now what I do... stock valves springs or I keep the Crower....

Mat

igo4bmx

Damn mat I don't know what to say

ELSpool

Too much lift, coil bind as a result??

This was one of the reason why I went back to the stock cam, as my machinist/head guy told be the lift from that ZEX cam was just too close for the specs on the Supertech springs and retainers, and it was worse after it was all installed...


Modified by ELSpool at 3:05 PM 8/21/2006

earl

Matt, it looks from the pix that you are about ready to drop the valve in question. My guess is a defective retainer. If it were me, I would replace the full set of Crowers with SuperTechs. Not a big fan of Crower quality anymore. You would also replace the valve, both keepers and the rocker arm in question.

yellowturbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Matt, it looks from the pix that you are about ready to drop the valve in question. My guess is a defective retainer. If it were me, I would replace the full set of Crowers with SuperTechs. Not a big fan of Crower quality anymore. You would also replace the valve, both keepers and the rocker arm in question.</TD></TR></TABLE>

mmh im not sure that its the retainer because I only pictured the worse one but all around the head there is about at least 10 valves that begin to looks like this one and the retainers looks fine.

Anyway I will rev this engine at only 8000rpm now with my GT28RS .82ar so I might just install the stock springs / stock retainers with new valves... im broke so thats a good option and I cant go wrong since im gonna use the stock cam too. The crower stuff might go into the garbage...

yellowturbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Matt, it looks from the pix that you are about ready to drop the valve in question. My guess is a defective retainer. If it were me, I would replace the full set of Crowers with SuperTechs. Not a big fan of Crower quality anymore. You would also replace the valve, both keepers and the rocker arm in question.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that you didnt looked at the pics carefully ; look how wide the top of the valve is... its like if you would have punch it with an hammer. The retainer is still holding but not for long haha !

93supercoupe

so ur saying that thje cam kind of panked the top of the valve?

DaveF

crower retainers pull through like that. we have had a head do the same thing. and we cought it before it went all the way through....

Mr HYDE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Matt, it looks from the pix that you are about ready to drop the valve in question. My guess is a defective retainer. If it were me, I would replace the full set of Crowers with SuperTechs. Not a big fan of Crower quality anymore. You would also replace the valve, both keepers and the rocker arm in question.</TD></TR></TABLE>

got all my supertech from this man right here havent had a problem yet, ran rocketmotorsports and it wore my rockers switchd to supertech and have been good. to earl for all the help

yellowturbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">crower retainers pull through like that. we have had a head do the same thing. and we cought it before it went all the way through....</TD></TR></TABLE>

its not the retainer look at the top of the valve... its like if someone punched the top of the valves with a big hammer... its sure that the retainer will fail someday lol...

look how wide the top of the valve is...

turbotime

what kinda valves? I heard the old ferrea used to mushroom like that on the top, its some kinda manufac. defect or maybe too high lift?

I never have seen oem valve mushroom but some aftermarket valves are prone to that

yellowturbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what kinda valves? I heard the old ferrea used to mushroom like that on the top, its some kinda manufac. defect or maybe too high lift?

I never have seen oem valve mushroom but some aftermarket valves are prone to that</TD></TR></TABLE>

they are Supertech valves, Crower spring, Crower retainers, Zex 59300 cam. Bad mixture I guess....

turbotime

yeah im no valvetrain export but maybe the lift on that cam was too much or those springs are too stiff?? Supertech are some nice valves something is definitely going wrong to mushroom them like that... Have you tried calling supertech and seeing what they have to say?

Civic TSI

****... How's the rocker arms ? Give me a call tonight.

yellowturbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civic TSI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">****... How's the rocker arms ? Give me a call tonight.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will... the rocker arm seems affected but not that much. I wont reuse them thats for sure. I probably have a spare head laying somwhere...

At least I didnt went on the dyno like that....

platinum00

How high where you spinning the motor with this setup?

I have the Supertech valves and retainers with this cam. I need to check my head to make sure i dont have the same issue.

The 59300 is loud, but I think it's worth it for the extra power up top. If your going to swap it for the stock Z6 cam, you should be alright with a new set of stock springs/retainers. Many people run the GT28RS with stock head and have good numbers. plus I think you might pick up some torque in the low end to help spool.

Good luck,
platinum.

yellowturbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by platinum00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How high where you spinning the motor with this setup?

I have the Supertech valves and retainers with this cam. I need to check my head to make sure i dont have the same issue.

The 59300 is loud, but I think it's worth it for the extra power up top. If your going to swap it for the stock Z6 cam, you should be alright with a new set of stock springs/retainers. Many people run the GT28RS with stock head and have good numbers. plus I think you might pick up some torque in the low end to help spool.

Good luck,
platinum.</TD></TR></TABLE>

to about 8500rpm maximum with my last setup, the SC50 .63ar. Since I have the RS no more than 8000 but usually I shift at 7500...

DaveF

how many of your valves got distorted like that one in your picture ? is it just one of them or all of them ??

yellowturbo

they all look like there was too much pressure on the top of each valves, the surface is all scratched and cmpressed but the one pictured is the worse...

Kelly.

what was the valve lash set to?

any chance the valve lash was to tight and the rocker was constantly "mashing" the top of the valve?

i run the same cam (zex 59300) but i am running a zex spring/retainer combo.
it was alittle more expensive, but i figure they were designed to work with each other.

i dont think the cam has so much lift that it is mushrooming the top of the valve, as it isnt that agressive of a cam (zex makes a more agressive cam, the 59500)

ill have to check mine out to make sure everything is ok.
atleast you caught it in time.

fyi- there are a handfull of people running the 59300 cam on stock valvetrain without any problems, as long as it isnt revved over the stock limit.

i personally wont do it, but i thought id throw it out there

platinum00

Bump for the valve lash.

I believe in a previous post he said he ran them tight to keep the noise down.

Anyone seen this cause issues in the past. I know it can cause premature wear, but this is a bit ridiculaus

platinum.

Kelly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by platinum00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bump for the valve lash. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i ran 7 and 9 per zexman (who works for comp/zex)

mine was alittle loud in the begining but has since quieted down.

ladysman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

any chance the valve lash was to tight and the rocker was constantly "mashing" the top of the valve?

i run the same cam (zex 59300) but i am running a zex spring/retainer combo.
it was alittle more expensive, but i figure they were designed to work with each other.

i dont think the cam has so much lift that it is mushrooming the top of the valve, as it isnt that agressive of a cam (zex makes a more agressive cam, the 59500)
)</TD></TR></TABLE>

This was my first thought too about the lash.
I run this cam with full Ferrea valve train and supertech valves. It's been a long time with no problems yet. I will have to check it sometime.

Weq

i think the key here is incorrect valve lash. THis cam has been used with crower spirng/ret and stock springs/rets many times over with much success.

Flr Power

To have a bent rocker arm like that means the valve has probably hit the piston somehow.