In my continuing effort to plan my FI project, I'm trying to learn more about Hondata. Quick question for you guys who know more about this then I.. according to this page, http://www.hondata.com/boostjrsc.html , the very bottom they list stuff that comes with their 'kit' versus typical components purchased individually..

When they say "Hondata 8-10 PSI JRSC upgrade" does that imply that if you're running a JRSC at 6psi, that the Hondata upgrade changes the boost from 6 to 8-10? Cuz, if so, I don't get it.

OR, does it mean that you should be using the Hondata upgrade when you're running 8-10lbs via different pullies and whatnot?

Hondata seems very promising.. is this the newest "big thing" to happen to Honda's in a while? I know it's not brand new.. but it's far from old. Is this the greatest thing to happen since slices bread, or is it overrated?

What do you guys think?

ben@importparts.com, are you going to becoming a distributor?


[Modified by nerdish, 1:29 PM 7/10/2001]

 

the hondata cannot change your boost level - only a smaller pulley can do that.

What it does do is what the factory ECU cannot - read boost. With the use of larger injectors, this allows you to get proper fueling and ignition maps directly from the ECU, without the use of bandaids like a Apex SAFC, boost dependant regulators, IAT relays, boost retard units, etc. In short, it makes it like a factory supercharged car.

The benefits to this are: much improved bottom end/off boost performance (no more retarded ignition timing), improved gas milage, greatly reduced detonation, improved drivability/reliability, and of course, power increased.

I am so sold on this product, without even using it first hand, that I would never build a forced induction Honda project without it. Why use band aids when you can solve the problem permanently?

 

It sounds incredible so I'm trying to read and learn as much as I can...

As per my question, on that page when they compare their system vs other "band aids".. they're explaining what their kit includes with a JRSC of 8-10psi, right?

Other thoughts?

 

http://www.hondata.com/dynogsrturborocky.html

 

1. Hondata is worth its weight in Gold.
2. To run JRSC safely @ 8-10psi Jackson recommends the column on the right. Hondata is recommending the column on the left with the advantages listed.
3. I would seriusly recommend forgetting the Idea of a Jackson kit and getting a custom turbo kit with the Hondata stage 3 with boost option(at least) Stage 4 with boost is even better.
A turbo is much more flexible, U can run anywhere from 4-25psi without even looking in the engine bay. If U want to change boost on a SC U have to take the unit out completely change the pulley etc. This is a lot harder than it seems, I would imagine U have to tune the engine management all over everytime U change the pulley size, whereas if U have a turbo U can have it properly tuned at one Dyno session.

 

I'm just not mechanically inclined enough to handle the responsabilities of a Turbocharger. I don't want to take my car to the shop every week for something I can't fix.. Generally speaking the SC is more maintenance free.

I understand what you're saying about turning up the boost. With a turbo it's so much easier. However, I would install the proper pullies at the same time as the initial installation. And this isn't going to be an all out monster so I think 8-10 psi is a good goal.

I would also install the Hondata at the same time as well to handle all tuning issues at once, instead of 3,4,5 or more sessions of tuning.

Another concern, with forced induction (say in my case, a JRSC) at 8-10 psi and the Hondata Stage 3b (I guess, for right now..) I can safely boost that much with stock internals right? Just verifiying.. I'm assuming that is one of the best things about Hondata.

 

Well U can do 8-10 with a turbo and stock internals as well, I dont think that a SC is maintainance free, I think it requires the same attention. Jackson has not put enough into it either and when there is a problem, I am not sure who is going to fix it, whether its Jackson or this other company who actually makes the kit for Jackson for Jackson. I personally think it could get messy. If U insist on a SC I would highly recommend a Vortech.

 

I don't mean to say that a SC is maintainance free, it's just less prone to problems..

As for the Vortech kit no way, I'd like a nice broad torque curve as opposed to some good peak numbers. I don't think the Vortech should be an option for anybody..

If I had the means, I would get a Turbo.

My decision right now isn't anywhere near final anyways..

 

http://crx.honda-perf.org/faq/data/3.html

Hey man check this link

 

His major beef is running lean at light throttle. He states, and Hondata claims that their systems will take care of that.

But I still think more people have problems with their turbos then those with superchargers, percentage-wise.

One guy's story isn't going to change my mind...

 

There's also guys on the board like MouhadIb who can attest to the positive things about the JRSC. There's another guy who runs 10psi, and he'll say the same thing. Can't remember his name though.. however, now he does wish he had a turbo, but he says that a year and half (or whatever it was) he wasn't very confident in his mechanical ability.

And that's the same situation I'm in. Once I feel I can handle the SC, my next project would definately be a turbo..

 

I get so tired of turbo haters claiming turbos are unreliable... the only problem with turbos is self control! it is absolutely rediculous to claim a poorly designed unintercooled supercharger that is horibly plauged with detonation problems is more reliable or problem free than a turbo...

what reliability problems with the turbo are you afraid of? uncontrollable wheel spin ? I have several friends who have gone with turbos and superchargers (up to 12 psi supercharged or 30 psi turbo and everything in between) I would love to address any conserns you may have

 

i used to have a jrsc.......used to.

turbos aren't that much more difficult to maintain. lose the s/c.

 

Look dude, I'm not a "turbo hater." I didn't say they are unreliable. I said they are more prone to problems then a JRSC. Am I wrong?!

I just don't think the turbo is right for me at this point.

Sheesh.

 

Yes U are wrong! Do U think that everyone who has a turbocharged car is a guru?, U know how many Grannies I see driving Turbocharged cars everyday?............ Tons.

 

And how many of those are on Volvo's that come with the car STOCK, there's a difference. (Kinda funny cuz my friend's dad's Volvo S80 T6 dun work right.. )

How many grannies go out and buy a Drag Gen III for their Civic Hatchback?

I don't want this to become a flame war, but your lack of evidence cannot pursuade me from believing more people have problems with Turbos than they do Superchargers. Generally speaking.




[Modified by nerdish, 9:27 AM 7/11/2001]

 

Numerically, yes. Statistically NO. Thats because more people have Turbocharged cars than those with Supercharged cars, further, If u were to take a look at ALL the Auto Manufacturers, turbos are more widely used. Have u ever seen a supercharged Volvo, Mazda, Nissan, Ford,Toyota except for the MR2 that later went turbocharged & the Previa, Subaru,Renault, Ferrari, Lambo and the list goes on. Only Benz touts a SC, Dont forget that OEM believes in reliability and they have spent billions to ensure that their products spend more time in your garage as opposed to their dealerships with warranty repair. Now if a SC was more reliable dont U think it will be on more cars directly from the manufacturer?

 

God dammit I hate getting drawn into these things.

Aftermarket Turbos, vs Aftermarket Superchargers. Percentage-wise, I'm almost positive Turbo's run into more problems. A lot of those problems are fixed relatively easily with some mechanical knowledge. I just don't feel I have that knowledge yet..

Yes, there are more cars with stock turbos. But there are also cars with Superchargers from the factory like Pontiac Grand Prix GTPs and Ford Lightnings... Yes, those are domestic and most imports/foreign cars with forced induction use Turbos.

Remember, I'm not set on buying a Supercharger. I still have a year to decide. I need to research Turbo's a lot more, but right now I'm leaning towards a SC...

I'm done now.

 

I am just giving the facts boss, Still on the aftermarkets, I know Turbos out number SCs by a very significantly large margin. Dont U think aftermarket turbos exceed aftermarket SCs by a large margin? And in this business we are seeing more and more people going turbo after being supercharged but almost never vice versa.

 

You already made up your mind. Go get the supercharger and be content of not trying to learn how to be more mechanically incline. IT is obvious you have no desire to know the mechanic side of things other than driving your car.

You will learn a year from now that you made a mistake when you bought the supercharger. And you will learn that you have to change your belts way more frequently than you thought. Especially on a upgraded pulley set.

You can not compare blown V8s with blown I-4s. There is no competition here. A blown V8 will kick the foot up your *** and keep going. A blown I-4 will just jerk your head off the line and that is all it is going to do. It's going to make more noise than anything. Oh yeah those GTPs and Lightings have no chance against my T3/T4 and I'm only running 6 pounds!

All i had to do is know that you have to change oil/spark plugs frequently.
My car isn't even tuned right and I experience major bogging on the launch all the time BUT I WHOOP ***. hehehehe

I was in the same boat as you and was afraid of turbos...now it is second nature to me and I thank my friends for letting me see the light. If you are going to boost on a I-4...don't do it half *** on a parasitic SC...go turbo.
That is the only way to go. The best bang for the buck (I'm not talking about NOS) as far as power and expandibility for the money.

Go turbo...there is no other option. You will only end up selling your SC to the next newbie who was afraid of turbos. Save yourself some money and just by turbo my friend!

-AzianAvenger

 

I take great offense to that because I thought I had made it clear that A) My mind was not made up and still isn't, and B) That I do want to learn how to be more mechanically inclined.

This is my daily and only driver so I need to be careful with my plans for it, I don't have many friends who have the tools, or the know how to fix something when I **** it up. You had the luxury of friends telling you why you can't just turn the boost up to 30psi. I'm trying to learn all I can on this board,

 

Well thats good that u are trying to learn, so................listen. When we tell U a lot of have been there and have regretted it so LISTEN, Take some coaching. I think Endyn was trying to come out with a charger as well, rumor has it that they are not sure that the JR charger is what it is cracked up to be, so they put it on hold.


[Modified by Liltrix, 3:38 PM 7/11/2001]

 

look at it this way. i know many people who have traded in the SC for a turbo. why do you think that it is? how many people you see exchanging turbo's for sc?? ive never seen one!

 

Yeah, but for me to change my mind it's going to take a lot more than 'well everyone else does it.'

 

Nerdish:

What are these "problems" with turbos you speak of? Can you name any specifically?