dustin

Ok, this is *kind of* turbo related, so I'll post it here. This is my favorite forum anyways You are insane if you actually read this entire thing.

I am buying some welding equipment, and I am trying to decide how to most prudently spend my money. I need this welder to do a bunch of downpipe work, fabricate some manifolds, fabricate intercooler piping, weld some roll cages, do some body work, and eventually I want to build a small go kart among other things.

I am trying to get the most welding power out of the smallest amount of money. I only have 30A 220v power available to run the welder so I am going to be purchasing an inverter welder.

Here are my options and their respective prices:

1) HTP Invertig 200 AC/DC - $2300 shipped.



Comes w/ regulator & flow meter, the tig torch, foot control, cart, etc. Can weld 3/8" to 1/2" steel. Can do 1/4" to 5/16" Aluminum. Has all sorts of crazy features that I do not know how to use (it does have the cool factor w/ a digital readout though). Very light @ 65lbs. Has a gas solenoid built in. Only pulls 25A @ 200A output.

This is a very awesome welder. Probably more power than I will ever need, but I think I want that power in case I ever do need it. Welders are an expensive investment and I do not want to have to buy another one. It can do aluminum well because of AC output. I want to be able to weld aluminum intercooler piping, weld endtanks on intercoolers, build some catch cans, and make some aluminum dash pieces for a racecar. I know aluminum is very hard to weld so I would have to learn (eventually)... but I want aluminum capability if possible.

The downside is the price. This welder is $2300 and that is /really/ hard to justify on some welding equipment that I will only use every so often. Also, HTP is a very small company... and if it ever broke I would probably have to ship it back to them. There is no local support for HTP (The welder itself can only be ordered directly from the company... sort of like Valentine One)

2) Miller Maxstar 200 - $2000 shipped



This welder is actually $1500 or so, but it only comes with the power source itself. After you get a decent torch, regulator, and a foot control etc it comes out to about $2000 shipped.

This welder is about as powerful as the above HTP Invertig, but it is DC only. You really want AC to do aluminum work. (Aluminum can be done with DC.. that is how they did it before AC was stable enough for alum, but you are limited on the thickness of the aluminum. Cannot be any thicker than the tungsten you are welding with.. so probably 3/16" max and much harder to weld than AC).

It has a gas solenoid, and it has lots of cool frequency controls.. but not as many as the Invertig 200 above. It has the ooh-ahh factor of the digital screen, and is considered serious industrial welding equipment. It will definately be more than powerful enough to do any steel work that I would ever need... but I miss out on the aluminum aspect of things. This toy weighs less than 40lbs.

Miller has most of the welding market and is widely supported. There are scores of welding shops in my area that would be more than happy to repair the unit in case it ever broke... and I could by replacement parts and accessories locally.

Downside is that it costs almost the same as the Invertig 200 and I miss the aluminum features.

3) Miller Maxstar 140 - $1070 shipped



This toy is cool. The entire welder only weighs 10lbs, and it is completely portable (minus the heavy tank of argon you need to tote around with it to make it useful). It can do 140A output on 220v power, and can run off 110v power. Comes with regulator & flowmeter, torch, stick welding equipment, and a finger remote control (very cool).

It does not have the welding output power of the above 2 welders. Limited to about 1/4" steel with this sucker. I read that a guy has had good success welding 3/8" steel with it in 2 passes (he has 20yrs of welding experience though). By fooling with different grades of tungsten this individual claimed that it was very easy to weld 1/8" aluminum with it and he even did 3/16" aluminum with it quite well, but he has tons of experience too. Miller claims that the max welding thickness in steel is 3/16" (conservative). People seem to absolutely love this unit, and sing its praises everywhere I read.

It has no gas solenoid, so you get to turn the gas on/off yourself whenever you use the torch. (The above units turn it on for you right before you initiate the arc and leave it running after you break the arc to keep the weld from air contamination). It is limited in its output, and I think I will outgrow it someday. It definately will not do all the aluminum work I someday wish to do. However, this thing is so darn portable... it also autosenses power (like the above unit) so you can run it on 110v or 220v or whatever you have. It lacks any cool digital screens or controls (features I will probably not appreciate now... but I would want them some day).

Overall though, the main factor promoting this one is the price. It is $1200 cheaper than the top Invertig 200.

----

Keep in mind that whichever I choose, I will still need to buy a tank full of argon, a good welding helmet, some good gloves, and a bunch of consumables. This alone comes to a good $400.

So I need to decide. I want to get one soon because I want to fix and fabricate some stuff for my integra to get it working again (currently not running properly). I can just /barely/ afford the Invertig 200 right now, but I would not be able to get the tank, helmet etc for a while (christmas is coming up). I could always wait to get the most expensive one... but I am having a hard time justifying the expense of $2300 on welding equipment when I have so many other things I need to get. (My CRX will not pass smog w/ the ZC motor, so I am building an LS to put in it.. but my DMV registration extension expires Jan 31st... so I really need to devote some money to this project too). However, over $1000 is still a lot to spend when I know I am going to need a more powerful welder in the future. Some people tell me that I should just bite the bullet and get the best one so I will never outgrow it or waste money... others tell me that I am crazy for wanting the equipment in the first place!

So, if you read all of this you are an absolute crazy man... but if you got this far go ahead and give me your comments.

Dustin

lucas569

um....yes the AEM is safe as long as you dont drive in deep puddles...

dustin

Haha!

Arturbo

Yes, dont use walbro with 12:1 fmu. It cant handle all the pressure.

art

dustin

Ah man, maybe I should just move this to member's corner. But then it would just turn into a big religious debate.

Dustin

LsTurbo91

No, don't boost 20psi with a FMU and stock fuel pump.

Rob03Pro5

WTF?! I thought this was a Saturn forum?? You mean the B18C1 can't be a direct swap with my POS paper-weight??

LsTurbo91

hehe, just get the 2300 one, you'll thank yourself later if not then sell it to me half price

lucas569

btw since THIS IS off topic i'm knocking off 2% from your rating.

dustin

I'm not the one with 99% now

turbod97ex

After reading the HIGHLIGHTS of what you are trying to do, I would think that you ought to try seeing what you could do to pass the tailpipe test by the end of January so that you can extend the time to buy the welder you want. Is that an option? If not, sounds like you are in a tough spot.

dustin

Well, I think I might be able to extend the already extended extension some... but I would prefer not to. Worst case scenario I would have to park it and drive another car until I got it all reassembled.

Dustin

D-Man

You should check out Lincoln Welders before u run out and buy one of those two,they're the best in the business

dustin

Nah, I have had some experience w/ Lincoln and I prefer miller. "The power of blue" I have researched those welders up there quite extensively. I think it is more like a JUN vs Toda debate

Dustin

randomwalk101

Spend the 2300..you will thank yourself later...remember, you get what you paid for. If they perform the same, prices would be the same...supply/demand...

dustin

I have heard some negative things about the Lincoln Invertec machines, but they are pretty cheap by comparison. More research necessary

dbman96

Plus that one is red and has digital readout... that alone is worth the extra $300.

I'd say the ability to do aluminum is well worth it. And don't worry, if your parts are well-prepped I think Al is easier to weld than steel; you just got to take it slow.

The real question is once you have that baby when do you start giving your h-tech buddies the hookup on custom piping, downpipes, manifolds, roll cages...




[Modified by dbman96, 6:59 PM 11/28/2001]

downpipe

i wonder how insane this makes me, since i know nothing about welding? i think you should wait and buy the most expensive one. only because it leaves the most options open for you. you'll kick yourself hard if you buy one of the cheaper ones and then wind up with a still expensive gadget that is now useless since it doesn't satisfy your welding needs. so as long as you are committed, get a welder you can grow with. happy welding.

dustin

Wow, I expected the opposite result from everyone. So you all think it is worth it to spend $2300 on a welder? I mean, I could buy like... a car with that much money. Or hondata for my integra... or.. candy

Liltrix

Dustin, I think U should buy the HTP, its actually the better of the two options U listed, It is more capable than U are right now, thats a positive thing! At least you can learn something new, U might even find that the extras U dont know about is atually something useful and what U really needed.

accordking

Welders are an excellent investment, especially when your into heavy racing and need to fabricate alot of stuff. I would get the most expensive one IMHO. You DO get what you paid for and why mess with something that you'll out grow anyway? It's like short cutting something on your engine that will eventually fail or fall apart in the future.

degradated

Do you plan to weld your manifold so that you don't boost creep problems anymore with the 3" exhaust? Didn't somebody say that this needs to be TIG welded or something like that, and that the home welding kits wouldn't suffice?

Anyway, $2300 is a lot. That's complete engine management, injectors, tuning, etc right there...i would just go with the cheapy kit and "outgrow" it later on.

dustin

I would, but the "cheapy" kit is expensive too. At least by my standards it is. Ahh, so much money.

Dustin

lucas569

ok i'm moving this to the members corner,you were warned *click*

lucas569 <--who knows power consumes those that dont have it...

97-96-95-94....


[Modified by lucas569, 8:48 PM 11/28/2001]

degradated

lol, you can't do ****