Head porting for FI
03-09-2004, 01:10 PM
#1
Head porting for FI
OK guys ive ported alot of head but i wanted to see what u guys think is a good.
Ive looked and can not find much the head is a D16Y8 and im planing on doing some port work.
I just want some tips on Forced Induction porting or links on honda FI motor write ups.
Now on the exhaust side the port is extremly small like there is about 5-7mm between the port and the gasket. DO i take the port all the way to say 1-2mm to the gasket?
Here are the progess on the head.
Modified by JDMCRX at 1:14 AM 3/15/2004
Modified by JDMCRX at 1:42 AM 3/15/2004
Modified by JDMCRX at 2:36 PM 6/25/2004
Ive looked and can not find much the head is a D16Y8 and im planing on doing some port work.
I just want some tips on Forced Induction porting or links on honda FI motor write ups.
Now on the exhaust side the port is extremly small like there is about 5-7mm between the port and the gasket. DO i take the port all the way to say 1-2mm to the gasket?
Here are the progess on the head.
Modified by JDMCRX at 1:14 AM 3/15/2004
Modified by JDMCRX at 1:42 AM 3/15/2004
Modified by JDMCRX at 2:36 PM 6/25/2004
03-09-2004, 10:53 PM
#4
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Re: Head porting for FI (TurboR1391)
Here are some pics that larry at Endyn did. I just thought I would share. According to him, "Here's a couple shots of our D16 budget headwork. The chambers have been CNC'd to 78mm. The port bowls and entries / exits thoroughly reworked.
These heads receive the same valve seat treatment as in our more expensive head packages. Just as on all our heads, all the edges of the deck, water and oil passages are completely deburred to eliminate small bits of amuminum from breaking off and finding their way into the engine. ...not to mention fewer cuts on the installer's hands."
" The head pictured above is a $695.00 special.
Top of the line mods for D series run's $895.00.
Square head by milling the deck parallel to the camshaft bores.
Mill chamber reliefs around each valve seat.
Custom radius/discrete valve job. Larger than stock seats at no additional charge. Seat heights set to within .001" intake and exhaust to insure the same piston to valve clearance in each cylinder.
Rework port bowls and blend into seat asymmetric seat radii.
Blend and smooth chamber.
Match intake entries and exhaust port exits to spec.
Mill head to CC specification.
CNC chamber rework to match larger bore diameters adds $100.00
Assemble with new Honda valve seals and valves / springs / retainers requested."
But if you are looking to do it yourself look at the tips here: http://www.theoldone.com/articles/
art
These heads receive the same valve seat treatment as in our more expensive head packages. Just as on all our heads, all the edges of the deck, water and oil passages are completely deburred to eliminate small bits of amuminum from breaking off and finding their way into the engine. ...not to mention fewer cuts on the installer's hands."
" The head pictured above is a $695.00 special.
Top of the line mods for D series run's $895.00.
Square head by milling the deck parallel to the camshaft bores.
Mill chamber reliefs around each valve seat.
Custom radius/discrete valve job. Larger than stock seats at no additional charge. Seat heights set to within .001" intake and exhaust to insure the same piston to valve clearance in each cylinder.
Rework port bowls and blend into seat asymmetric seat radii.
Blend and smooth chamber.
Match intake entries and exhaust port exits to spec.
Mill head to CC specification.
CNC chamber rework to match larger bore diameters adds $100.00
Assemble with new Honda valve seals and valves / springs / retainers requested."
But if you are looking to do it yourself look at the tips here: http://www.theoldone.com/articles/
art
03-10-2004, 12:16 AM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Head porting for FI (Arturbo)
JG Engine Dynamics also does very good work. I had a d-series head from them.
z6 head - notice the square combustion chambers...and huge valves. This head flowed 301cfm i believe which is just amazing for a sohc! This head was also milled as it was for an all motor application.
03-10-2004, 03:35 AM
#7
Re: Head porting for FI (nd_styles)
well this year i am going to do the Y8 head then next year ill sleeve the motor and do either a JG head with 1mm over or the Artturbo one.
Not sure but keep the sujestions coming also pics thanks alot
Not sure but keep the sujestions coming also pics thanks alot
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03-10-2004, 03:38 AM
#8
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Re: Head porting for FI (JDMCRX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMCRX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well this year i am going to do the Y8 head then next year ill sleeve the motor and do either a JG head with 1mm over or the Artturbo one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Endyn head. I dont do head work..hehe
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Endyn head. I dont do head work..hehe
03-10-2004, 07:15 PM
#12
Re: Head porting for FI (JDMCRX)
OK guys ive started the exhaust vlave guides are smothened out and i pocket ported it blended the vlave seats in now im just going to polish it i dunno weather to mirror finish like this or just 200grit??
Any sudjestions
The intake side is almost 100% perfect a few spots ill have to smothen out but otherwise. ill be done soon.
Any sudjestions
The intake side is almost 100% perfect a few spots ill have to smothen out but otherwise. ill be done soon.
03-10-2004, 08:20 PM
#13
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Re: Head porting for FI (JDMCRX)
hey thats my head....
lots of head builders dont talk about the secrets of this stuff...
so i tried to learn, polishing the exhaust helps the flow..or course...less turbulance..
it takes time, its all up to you...if you think you should polish it do it...
but you would probably be fine with 200 grit for your project
lots of head builders dont talk about the secrets of this stuff...
so i tried to learn, polishing the exhaust helps the flow..or course...less turbulance..
it takes time, its all up to you...if you think you should polish it do it...
but you would probably be fine with 200 grit for your project
03-11-2004, 01:41 AM
#15
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reguarding polishing the ports, try this.
Polish any 2. Leave any2 just with a find sanding roll finish.
Operate the engine for 2 weeks. Remove the manifold and try to tell which ones you polished.
I dont know about you, but my ports get this fine surface layer of carbon crystals no matter how i finish it.
Also remember to note the top and bottom runner legnths when porting.
The huge huge huge difference i see between those 2 heads that were showns chambers is this. One head, with the quench pads part of the plane of deck will need much higher domes on the pistons protruding into the cumbustion chamber. chambers hate that, and knock loves it.
The endyn chambers machined recessed pads with match a piston that mates to them. This will make for a tighter combustion chamber that is less knock prone. It will also flow considderably better i would imagine with a cylinder entrace taper like that.
The JG engine dynamics heads injector cutout seems to encourage lower flow rate in an area it needs it most. It also looks like it legnthens the top of the runner wall, when that head needs the bottom run out to be making the gains from mods.
Arturbo- do you have any more pics of the endyn heads port design?
Polish any 2. Leave any2 just with a find sanding roll finish.
Operate the engine for 2 weeks. Remove the manifold and try to tell which ones you polished.
I dont know about you, but my ports get this fine surface layer of carbon crystals no matter how i finish it.
Also remember to note the top and bottom runner legnths when porting.
The huge huge huge difference i see between those 2 heads that were showns chambers is this. One head, with the quench pads part of the plane of deck will need much higher domes on the pistons protruding into the cumbustion chamber. chambers hate that, and knock loves it.
The endyn chambers machined recessed pads with match a piston that mates to them. This will make for a tighter combustion chamber that is less knock prone. It will also flow considderably better i would imagine with a cylinder entrace taper like that.
The JG engine dynamics heads injector cutout seems to encourage lower flow rate in an area it needs it most. It also looks like it legnthens the top of the runner wall, when that head needs the bottom run out to be making the gains from mods.
Arturbo- do you have any more pics of the endyn heads port design?
03-11-2004, 05:22 AM
#16
Re: (liveforphysics)
yeah all i did on the exhaust side so far was smoothin the vlave guides and smothened the port. Now i think ill polish it up a bit. I was told that on the exhaust port polishing it helps deflect heat away from the exhaust port walls, back into the exhaust gases which inturn induces better flow of exhaust gases.
03-11-2004, 07:13 AM
#17
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Re: (JDMCRX)
For someone doing their own head work! When you're done try to get it on a flow bench...... see if you can't make it a little nicer...... thats what I did
03-11-2004, 07:15 AM
#18
Re: (JDMCRX)
Here are some important aspects for preparing a head for FI.
Exhaust side:
1) Exhaust seat should be 0.050 or wider for street use (heat transfer!)
2) Guides should be left stock length for best longevity. (heat transer)
3) Don't open up the exit too much and just work the roof and reduce the choke in the port.
4) 3 angle valve job is preferred (why I am not saying).
5) Inconel or Stainless valves will help here as stock exhaust can become brittle with high temps. (the constant cycle of heat then quenching as the cool intake charge hits the valves, can you say thermal shock)
6) Exhaust valves should have a good margin on it to help with thermal stability.
Intake side:
1) Intake seat should be 0.040 or wider for street use.
2) Other than that it's not much different than a NA port.
Springs:
1) should have over 80lbs seat pressure if you wanna run 20+psi
Head Milling:
1) Keep this to a minimum. More stable deck surface is preserved.
Intake Manifold:
1) make sure your intake has a big plenum. Otherwise runners will cannibalize each others air.
Hopes this helps.
The information provided above in large part is what I have learned from JG and RLZEngineering.
Exhaust side:
1) Exhaust seat should be 0.050 or wider for street use (heat transfer!)
2) Guides should be left stock length for best longevity. (heat transer)
3) Don't open up the exit too much and just work the roof and reduce the choke in the port.
4) 3 angle valve job is preferred (why I am not saying).
5) Inconel or Stainless valves will help here as stock exhaust can become brittle with high temps. (the constant cycle of heat then quenching as the cool intake charge hits the valves, can you say thermal shock)
6) Exhaust valves should have a good margin on it to help with thermal stability.
Intake side:
1) Intake seat should be 0.040 or wider for street use.
2) Other than that it's not much different than a NA port.
Springs:
1) should have over 80lbs seat pressure if you wanna run 20+psi
Head Milling:
1) Keep this to a minimum. More stable deck surface is preserved.
Intake Manifold:
1) make sure your intake has a big plenum. Otherwise runners will cannibalize each others air.
Hopes this helps.
The information provided above in large part is what I have learned from JG and RLZEngineering.
03-11-2004, 08:09 AM
#19
Re: (spoolinlude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoolinlude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> For someone doing their own head work! When you're done try to get it on a flow bench...... see if you can't make it a little nicer...... thats what I did</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sad to say guy i live in CANADA flow bench lol there is none around here the closeit would be like NYC of USA and thats 6-10 hours away lol
The exhaust vlave guides i took maybe 4mm off them well angled them to blend them in and i worked the roof and the sides a little bit.
More info the better thanks guys
For someone doing their own head work! When you're done try to get it on a flow bench...... see if you can't make it a little nicer...... thats what I did</TD></TR></TABLE>Sad to say guy i live in CANADA flow bench lol there is none around here the closeit would be like NYC of USA and thats 6-10 hours away lol
The exhaust vlave guides i took maybe 4mm off them well angled them to blend them in and i worked the roof and the sides a little bit.
More info the better thanks guys
03-11-2004, 08:32 AM
#20
Re: Head porting for FI (JDMCRX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMCRX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK guys ive started the exhaust vlave guides are smothened out and i pocket ported it blended the vlave seats in now im just going to polish it i dunno weather to mirror finish like this or just 200grit??
Any sudjestions
The intake side is almost 100% perfect a few spots ill have to smothen out but otherwise. ill be done soon. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Narrow up the divider more.
On NA motors I go to town on the divider even more but Turbo exhaust ports dividers should not be thinned as much.
Any sudjestions
The intake side is almost 100% perfect a few spots ill have to smothen out but otherwise. ill be done soon.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Narrow up the divider more.
On NA motors I go to town on the divider even more but Turbo exhaust ports dividers should not be thinned as much.
03-11-2004, 10:46 AM
#21
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Re: (JDMCRX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMCRX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sad to say guy i live in CANADA flow bench lol there is none around here the closeit would be like NYC of USA and thats 6-10 hours away lol
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd pity you if you were in Saskatchewan, but you're in the "Center of the Earth". There's a flow bench in Ontario somewhere.
Sad to say guy i live in CANADA flow bench lol there is none around here the closeit would be like NYC of USA and thats 6-10 hours away lol
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd pity you if you were in Saskatchewan, but you're in the "Center of the Earth". There's a flow bench in Ontario somewhere.
03-11-2004, 11:32 AM
#22
Re: (REVHARD_EF)
Maybe in toronto there is im not going to drive 5 hours tho im just doing it cause i got some time to kill and its free.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by REVHARD_EF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'd pity you if you were in Saskatchewan, but you're in the "Center of the Earth". There's a flow bench in Ontario somewhere.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by REVHARD_EF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'd pity you if you were in Saskatchewan, but you're in the "Center of the Earth". There's a flow bench in Ontario somewhere.</TD></TR></TABLE>