1fastlude1

ok this is the 3rd time idk what the hells wrong, its a sleevd h22 with arp head studs and oem gasket, ive tryd cometic it lifted with it to. im runin 16psi nothing crazy ive torqued them to the 65 or whatever arp said the first time, the last 2 times ive torqued them to 90, the heads not cracked or warped. does any one have any ideas? some one help please

ekturbo13

have you checked the block to make sure its not warped?

komat

have you gotten it retuned?

racebum

x2

detonation / too much timing too early can bring this on REAL quick

non-VTEC

replace the headstuds with new ones. i had good luck with GE studs when i had a issue is ARP's.

1fastlude1

i havnt had it retuned, what exactly would cause this in the tune? timing?, the studs have only been used 2 times, is there a problem with arp studs for the h22? any other ideas?

turbo97coupe

who tuned your car to begin with ?

1fastlude1

phong at redline in arlingon tx, he was the only person still local that still tunes the hondata s200 evrey one else sold there s200 equipment when they discontinued it, i was going to have jason st00pid fast from houston tune it but every time he came up my way i missed him. if its in the tune im going to be pissed it was 500 to have him tune it i couldv paid for an s300 and had someone else tune it

1fastlude1

ya ive checked the head and block, i had the head surfaced both times and checked for cracks i work in a shop and we also have a machine shop so my buddy at worked has triple checked after i did, thats why i have been stumped every thing is working properly the head studs arnt stretchd, the only thing i cant check is the tune i guess ill be replacing another gasket and havn some one else retune and see what happens

boosted_b16a2

do you have after market cams? if so did you degree your motor? this also can cause your head to lift.

1fastlude1

ya t1 tunes s200 but its like 5hrs from me, theres quite of bit of good tuners around here that tune other systems do you think i should ditch the s200 for crome i know hondatas better but its just a hasl what do you huys think

1fastlude1

the engine is sleeved with mahle 9.1 the mahle for sleevs not the golds, eagle rods polished h22 crank, stock valve train oe h22a jdm cams, im so tired of this car it has been built for 2 years now and every time i get it done i break a tranny or lift the head.

turbo97coupe

yea i understand the frustration ive had my fair share of it over the years but i must admit it was totally worth it once i got everything sorted out .

DDTECH

.. Jason aka st00pid, hardly tunes honda's anymore, if you do get his time, you're very lucky.

Secondly.. your head's lifting because of a couple of reasons.

1) has the head and block been checked if its warped.. everytime a head comes off, it should get resurfaced.. period.

2) 64ft of torque seems low, i know arp says this.. but i've used nothing but GE, and have torqued them to around 82-84ft of torque in 4 different sequences.


I'm hoping your not just going on there and torqueing them straight to the number.. you should be doing in in strides.

Start @ 20 - 40 - 50 - 60 - final number.. The more times you torque them, the more of a strech you put on the threads to torque down correctly

If you've done all of this.. the last thing i'd look at is the holes in the block..you might need to timesert or helicoil them in.

I'd go with GE anyway.. i've had customers reuse GE headstuds like 3 times, and i'm on my second time.. i'm actually going to get a new set, but i've never heard of head's lifting with GE studs.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

65ft lbs of torque is wrong for those studs if im not mistaken, my ARP head studs finished at 80ft lbs according to the instructions with the kit...but even still, are the studs stretching when the head lifts? Or is it blowing the gasket out.

turbo97coupe

he said in the OP the last two times its lifted he has torqued them to 90 ft lbs

1fastlude1

i thought my tune was safe but now idk, and as i think about it ive had the probelms after i got it tuned, i ran a base map for 4 months before the tune and never had overheating issues, and last year right after the tune i lifted the head, replaced the gasket surfaced the head and it ran ok then started running really rich, i mean so rich my wide band coulnt read it and it was backfiring and pouring fuel when i took it back to redline, he loged it and said it was my alternator pulley cause it was after market and a little bigger causing voltage problems even though it was on there when it was tuned and it was charging correctly i never had a problem with the charging system, he said he disabled the o2 and after that i never had that problem.

1fastlude1

when jason was going to tune it, it was 2yrs ago at dynosore perfmance in saginaw tx he was coming up there once a month to tune by appointment i know i would have been lucky and it sucks he didnt tune it, i have had the head surfaced 1 time the firts time it lifted it wasnt warped i work in a shop that also has a machine shop they have checked the head and block every time for me, i do torque the head in steps, turbo97coupe im going to call t1 tomarrow and see what he will charge to retune i dont mind towing it that far to get it done right and be done with this crap

turbo97coupe

yea , when you talk to him tomorrow tell him what you have told us and get his input on if he thinks the tune will fix it , especially after you just mentioned you didn't start having these troubles until after your tune, but good luck let us know tomorrow what tony has to say

DDTECH

ya, i just didn't wanna mis quote because i didn't have the ARP manuel infront of me, but 64ft sounds low..

DDTECH

simple way to see this, is take pictures of the plugs..if your head is still off take pictures of the chambers and pistons.. i can almost tell you if this is due to a tune..

I know its possible but, having a head lift because of a bad tune, i dunno, i think something else would go first before a head lifting.. thats just me though.

turbo97coupe

well i had a similar issue with my car and the tune fixed it , is the only reason i brought up the tune

DDTECH

i agree, that could be the problem...just too many what ifs in that factor.

1fastlude1

i havnt pulled the head yet the plugs look normal other than a brown/orange color what do u think

rev-speed

what octane?