everythingwentblack

building a d16z6 single slammer, and cant decide what turbo to get. Shooting for 400whp race and low 3 for a daily. Buying a spoolin quick4ac equal length tubular mani which will be coated, and have a knife edged crank/balanced rotating assembly. with a .63a/r exhaust which would be better suited for a street driven, track weekend warrior when it comes to spool time?

powerneedy

Its been proven the 3071r spools faster and will make more power.

ScorpionT

Spool isnt significantly better with the .63 housing. I would use the GT3071R and .82 a/r.

Casey

iTrader: (5)

proof that a 3071 spools faster than a 2871?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You're really picking some smaller circuit course / street applications. For such a smaller turbine wheel 56 trim, there's no need to go to a .82A/R. It would simply shift pwoer a bit higher into your rpm range. You may get a slight more top end power, but with a GT2871R or GT3071R, what's the point in trying to get top end power? it pulls the turbo's purpose into limbo.

You want 400 race gas, use the GT3071R, and it will be fine for 300whp on a D-series. the GT2871R for that purpose is for lower end-midrange torque on a d-series

everythingwentblack

how would a bigger turbo spool faster?

Every little bit helps when it comes to spool time, IMO it all adds up.
Thats exactly what Im shooting for is more lower end midrange honestly. As far as HP numbers go, I dont want to be a dyno queen about it. I want to get as close to 400hp as I can on pump gas and a stock cam, not to mention my injectors max out around 380hp. But as we all know swapping injectors is a lot easier then swapping turbos and configuring downpipes/adapter flanges.

everythingwentblack

with a 2871 what would be the ideal compressor housing for what im trying to accomplish?

ScorpionT

400hp on pump gas isnt going to be easy with a 2871R. Sounds like what would work best is a GT28R modified with a Forced Performance compressor. Quicker spool than a 2871R and more power potential.

Ive tested quite a few housings, and the larger ones generally dont slow spool that much (sometimes they even quicken spool) but power potential can be very different.

everythingwentblack

Forced performance compressor? Please indulge me further, honestly I know nothing about them. But when you say gt28r are you referring to the internally gated gt28r (later changed its name to gt2560)

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

What I'm saying is, you won't COME CLOSE to 380 with a GT2871R turbocharger on the D-series. Instead of trying to remodify a GT28R through FP, Keep it simple, and use the GT3071R. you won't make enough torque even in the lower midrange to warrant "coming close" to 400whp or even 380whp.

GT3071R ONLY. It even comes as an option using the same turbine wheel as the GT2871R

everythingwentblack

Does anyone know the rpm difference between the 2871 and the 3071? Im going to jeff evans for a tune and he said that for a street driven car 400whp is achievable on a 2871. So many opinions.

SovXietday

Shodan's job is engineering turbochargers, I'd be listening to his opinion.

everythingwentblack

so a 3071 with a smaller gt28 series turbine wheel? No one around here has anything this nice so what sucks Is i cant drive anything to get an idea of whats best for me. I put a 50 trim journal bearing on my single slammer, but it takes forever to spool. this being the only comparison Is where im going wrong

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

On 90 percent of any honda turbo application, you're not going to have immediate direct comparison. That's the difference between paper and the real world. Considering I've had several people use these on 9.0:1 D16 built engines (the Vitara stuff WILL NOT YIELD THE SAME CHARACTERISTICS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR), for anything towards 400whp, GT3071R with the GT2871R turbine wheel (which is the standard for the GT3071R) will get as close as you can without having to give it a lot of boost pressure. It's been 8 months... Are you now starting to get all your equipmental "ducks" in a row? ;-)

everythingwentblack

haha well i posted this before I got back my block & head, and still had to pay off student loans. Then it sat for a while because i had to send gaskets back, and play that fun game. the turbo and manifold will be the last thing I buy (im also doing bodywork on the same shell) so meanwhile Im throwing out my ebay innercooler and looking for all the odds and ends.

Suffice to say its my first motor build (not vitara pistons, weisco 8.5:1 turbo pistons BTW) and when it comes down to it ill be honest. I want something really f**kin fast so when I stomp the gas pedal I go flying. When ruststangs pull up next to me they laugh at my pink wheels but I win. I want something that makes henry rollins say "Oh **** thats badass" when its parked in my garage. So i see your from chicago? see you in january sir.

SovXietday

Then you should have built a turbo V8, lol.

You're just not going to get 400whp on race gas and have on command power with a Dseries. You're going to need to spool it first, regardless of what you're running.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

??? You want fast and responsive and you went with that compression?

everythingwentblack

I bought a single cam that was already built, rods pistons and whatnot off h-t. I tore it down and replaced everything, rings bearings, rehoned the whole nine. thats just what the guy had before me. Good thing i tore it apart too, he had the wrong rings in that werent gapped to spec as well as two bad intake valves

everythingwentblack

so where does that leave me now?

boostedBLUfg2

you can't have your cake and eat it too. the d16 is a tiny engine, and I don't even think it's particularly efficient (just a hunch) in comparison to other honda motors.

regardless, it's a small motor, and if you want 400 whp, be prepared for a wait in spool times. i have a k20 making a bit over 400 whp and my car is a bit laggy.. just the nature of the beast. if you want fast response, expect a tiny turbo and half the whp that you're looking for. even then it's not going to be instantaneous.

Tony the Tiger

That's not going to happen with a D-series...

It's a 1.6L that can't be revved like a B, can't flow like a B16, and cannot spool the turbo better than a B either.

And even for the B-series guys, it still isn't happening.

Time for a K24 or an F22C.

Listen to Shodan, I would go with nothing lesser of a turbine than the GT3071R.

everythingwentblack

Yeah but people hit 400hp on single slammers all day with 93 octane. I want an all motor k, but gotta start somewhere hah. I just started this thread so I could get an idea of what to expect spool to rpm wise. My redline will be around 8k with my current bisimoto top end set up

SovXietday

400whp on 93? Nooooo. Not even with a bigger laggier turbo setup. Plan on around 325-350ish before you start getting on the edge of det.

E85 and 110/116. The heads don't flow well enough to get the efficiency out of the turbo's early, you will need higher boost pressures to get there, and 93 isn't enough octane to keep 25psi under control very well.

Spool time on the GT30R will be much like the 50trim you ran earlier. 2871 will be a little bit sooner, but not a whole lot even.

If you want on command power, it's time you learned how to downshift. Plus, trust me, 400whp in a Dseries is hell on tires. They make a lot of torque compared to the Bseries 400whp setups and you're going to have a hard time putting that power down. After about 275whp you can forget about having traction in 2nd gear, 3rd gear starts to get iffy around 350.

everythingwentblack

How are all these single cams I see everywhere online getting 400whp on pump gas then? I watch dynos and videos all day (a lot do have race gas, but a lot do have pump). Just so we can start to put pictures to problems, here is a port on my head

and heres my crank (woot woot, thatll help with spool)

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Because they are dynoing in one gear, with a very large turbo at low boost. That 400whp is at the last couple hundred rpms just to make that number. They don't tell you about the lack of responsiveness and uncontrollability of it being driven on the street with a low flowing head. They forget to mention that part, which is not on the video. ;-)