GSR or LS tranny???
10-18-2005, 04:12 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (PAndADc2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Gear ratios are merely a way to trade torque for rpm. With a higher numerical gear ratio, you are putting more rpm at the wheel. With closer gear ratios, you are able to stay at a higher rpm in between shift points. Something like the LS transmissions are suited more towards the broad torque curve/low reving LS engine. It keeps you in the peak torque area in between shifts. The ITR/SI/GSR transmissions keep the rpm's built up in between shifts, to stay in the more peaky powerband.
Having said that, for the track the itr/si tranny is the best hands down. Most high whp turbo engines are operating between 5.5-9k, and having their shift points in between. In combination with a tall slick size (24.5"+), and the high shift point (8.5-9k), you are able to keep the engine operating within the optimum torque curve.
With the LS transmission, between shifts it would possibly drop you out of the optimal powerband and therefore make you slower. Gearing simply put allows you to stay in the powerband of your engine in between shifts.
The myth that you stay in gear longer with the LS transmission makes you faster is purely false. Think about that statement for a second. Acceleration is the measure of velocity over a unit time. Watching the rpms climb on the tach during a 3rd/4th gear pull, they would be climbing slower than with the si/itr tranny. Looking at the definition of acceleration as a measure of velocity over a unit time, the engine would be getting to the same velocity over a slower time lapse. This would yield slower acceleration, and simply put make you slower.
Having said that, the gsr transmission is probably the best balance of a street/strip transmission. The gearing is a little less aggressive as the itr/si transmissions, which will yield a little more traction. For all out acceleration si/itr tranny wins hands down. For a slower car, go with the LS transmission.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
straightforward and concise.
Having said that, for the track the itr/si tranny is the best hands down. Most high whp turbo engines are operating between 5.5-9k, and having their shift points in between. In combination with a tall slick size (24.5"+), and the high shift point (8.5-9k), you are able to keep the engine operating within the optimum torque curve.
With the LS transmission, between shifts it would possibly drop you out of the optimal powerband and therefore make you slower. Gearing simply put allows you to stay in the powerband of your engine in between shifts.
The myth that you stay in gear longer with the LS transmission makes you faster is purely false. Think about that statement for a second. Acceleration is the measure of velocity over a unit time. Watching the rpms climb on the tach during a 3rd/4th gear pull, they would be climbing slower than with the si/itr tranny. Looking at the definition of acceleration as a measure of velocity over a unit time, the engine would be getting to the same velocity over a slower time lapse. This would yield slower acceleration, and simply put make you slower.
Having said that, the gsr transmission is probably the best balance of a street/strip transmission. The gearing is a little less aggressive as the itr/si transmissions, which will yield a little more traction. For all out acceleration si/itr tranny wins hands down. For a slower car, go with the LS transmission.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
straightforward and concise.
10-18-2005, 05:25 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (PAndADc2)
i like how u only just touched on traction.
what if he makes so much torque that the power isnt getting to the ground effectively? wouldnt an ls tranny help that?
and about that rpm climbimg slower in an LS tranny, who cares about what the tach is doin, for each little rev the ls tranny is doin, its still doin more work and gettin the MPH higher than the other trannies.
ie. acceleration of the car, not the engine.
thats just my point of view!
but i agree, that if traction is not an issue, the shorter boxes rock the LS.
what if he makes so much torque that the power isnt getting to the ground effectively? wouldnt an ls tranny help that?
and about that rpm climbimg slower in an LS tranny, who cares about what the tach is doin, for each little rev the ls tranny is doin, its still doin more work and gettin the MPH higher than the other trannies.
ie. acceleration of the car, not the engine.
thats just my point of view!
but i agree, that if traction is not an issue, the shorter boxes rock the LS.
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10-18-2005, 07:50 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (nickromeo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nickromeo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i like how u only just touched on traction.
what if he makes so much torque that the power isnt getting to the ground effectively? wouldnt an ls tranny help that?
and about that rpm climbimg slower in an LS tranny, who cares about what the tach is doin, for each little rev the ls tranny is doin, its still doin more work and gettin the MPH higher than the other trannies.
ie. acceleration of the car, not the engine.
thats just my point of view!
but i agree, that if traction is not an issue, the shorter boxes rock the LS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL, did you read that it's a quote???
comprehension > you
Last I checked Jeff Evans is one of the authorities on hondas and tuning. While you're questioning his theory why not write your own book that attempts to contradict Stephen Hawkings black hole and string theory assertions? I was trying to help him understand so that he can make his OWN decision. I would not be able to as apropriately articulate the reasons as well as Jeff Evans has so I quoted him. He after all has much more xp than you or I will likely ever have.
And then you ask...."shouldnt he pick his tranny on turbo size?." If you know so much why don't you tell him what he should get? All this from some guy who is boosting 5psi on his y7 (which there is nothing wrong with, but that tells me that you don't have an incredible amount of xp). He is running a b16 which is incredibly efficient and loves the higher rpms (peak torque area, where is it? get why the ls would not be the best?), but wait I'm sure you already knew that. That is why you are STILL suggesting an ls tranny. b16sedan explained what happened on his setup. Re-read his post. Stick around for a while kid maybe you'll learn something. Get all of your **** into one pile before you start throwing it at others.
what if he makes so much torque that the power isnt getting to the ground effectively? wouldnt an ls tranny help that?
and about that rpm climbimg slower in an LS tranny, who cares about what the tach is doin, for each little rev the ls tranny is doin, its still doin more work and gettin the MPH higher than the other trannies.
ie. acceleration of the car, not the engine.
thats just my point of view!
but i agree, that if traction is not an issue, the shorter boxes rock the LS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL, did you read that it's a quote???
comprehension > you
Last I checked Jeff Evans is one of the authorities on hondas and tuning. While you're questioning his theory why not write your own book that attempts to contradict Stephen Hawkings black hole and string theory assertions? I was trying to help him understand so that he can make his OWN decision. I would not be able to as apropriately articulate the reasons as well as Jeff Evans has so I quoted him. He after all has much more xp than you or I will likely ever have.
And then you ask...."shouldnt he pick his tranny on turbo size?." If you know so much why don't you tell him what he should get? All this from some guy who is boosting 5psi on his y7 (which there is nothing wrong with, but that tells me that you don't have an incredible amount of xp). He is running a b16 which is incredibly efficient and loves the higher rpms (peak torque area, where is it? get why the ls would not be the best?), but wait I'm sure you already knew that. That is why you are STILL suggesting an ls tranny. b16sedan explained what happened on his setup. Re-read his post. Stick around for a while kid maybe you'll learn something. Get all of your **** into one pile before you start throwing it at others.
11-16-2005, 06:07 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (nickromeo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nickromeo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i like how u only just touched on traction.
what if he makes so much torque that the power isnt getting to the ground effectively? wouldnt an ls tranny help that?
and about that rpm climbimg slower in an LS tranny, who cares about what the tach is doin, for each little rev the ls tranny is doin, its still doin more work and gettin the MPH higher than the other trannies.
ie. acceleration of the car, not the engine.
thats just my point of view!
but i agree, that if traction is not an issue, the shorter boxes rock the LS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No. This is retarded. If you want better traction get an LSD/traction bars/slicks/change your suspension set up.
what if he makes so much torque that the power isnt getting to the ground effectively? wouldnt an ls tranny help that?
and about that rpm climbimg slower in an LS tranny, who cares about what the tach is doin, for each little rev the ls tranny is doin, its still doin more work and gettin the MPH higher than the other trannies.
ie. acceleration of the car, not the engine.
thats just my point of view!
but i agree, that if traction is not an issue, the shorter boxes rock the LS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No. This is retarded. If you want better traction get an LSD/traction bars/slicks/change your suspension set up.
11-28-2005, 04:06 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (GetawayInMoscow)
i would say go for teh ls tranny b/c it will give time for the turbo to fully spoll up and getting more boost out of the turbo. well thats just some set ups and different kind of tuning. but i would go with the ls tranny for drag dono about track use?
11-28-2005, 04:18 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (Hype Vtec)
even if you shift at 8500 with an ls tranny, you will still come back into gear above 5k. i might recommend something like an ls tranny and a lightweight flywheel to help the revs come faster.
11-28-2005, 05:29 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (Boostage)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have a much better chance of putting down 250 lbs of tq with an LS tranny than any vtec tranny on the streets.</TD></TR></TABLE>
so... your car will dyno more power in 4th gear than it will in 3rd. Doesn't mean the car has more power in the taller gear, just means that it's pulling a harder load on the dyno.
You're not going to build boost by having longer gears, you build boost by RPM.
LS tranny = t3h suck
so... your car will dyno more power in 4th gear than it will in 3rd. Doesn't mean the car has more power in the taller gear, just means that it's pulling a harder load on the dyno.
You're not going to build boost by having longer gears, you build boost by RPM.
LS tranny = t3h suck
11-28-2005, 05:33 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (Boostage)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have a much better chance of putting down 250 lbs of tq with an LS tranny than any vtec tranny on the streets.</TD></TR></TABLE>
oh no a vtec tranny. thats awesome.
oh no a vtec tranny. thats awesome.
11-28-2005, 05:33 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (LudeToAHatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeToAHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so... your car will dyno more power in 4th gear than it will in 3rd. Doesn't mean the car has more power in the taller gear, just means that it's pulling a harder load on the dyno.
You're not going to build boost by having longer gears, you build boost by RPM.
LS tranny = t3h suck </TD></TR></TABLE>
Spinning tires all day long= teh suck
spinning is not accelerating.
so... your car will dyno more power in 4th gear than it will in 3rd. Doesn't mean the car has more power in the taller gear, just means that it's pulling a harder load on the dyno.
You're not going to build boost by having longer gears, you build boost by RPM.
LS tranny = t3h suck
</TD></TR></TABLE>Spinning tires all day long= teh suck
spinning is not accelerating.
11-28-2005, 05:41 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (Boostage)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Spinning tires all day long= teh suck
spinning is not accelerating.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah but we're talking about a:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bonestock b16a
t3/t04 turbo</TD></TR></TABLE>
not a 600whp or probably even a 300whp car
Spinning tires all day long= teh suck
spinning is not accelerating.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah but we're talking about a:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bonestock b16a
t3/t04 turbo</TD></TR></TABLE>
not a 600whp or probably even a 300whp car
11-28-2005, 05:59 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (LudeToAHatch)
Wow, this post is back from the dead.......
Re-read the quote I posted by Jeff. It says it all.
BTW - 300hp on a stock b16 is fairly common nowadays. Also, if he ever decides to turn up the boost and build a block then he will be stuck with whatever tranny he gets now, or he will have to drop another $400-$800 on one.
Re-read the quote I posted by Jeff. It says it all.
BTW - 300hp on a stock b16 is fairly common nowadays. Also, if he ever decides to turn up the boost and build a block then he will be stuck with whatever tranny he gets now, or he will have to drop another $400-$800 on one.
11-28-2005, 06:12 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (KeyserSoze)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KeyserSoze »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Also, if he ever decides to turn up the boost and build a block then he will be stuck with whatever tranny he gets now, or he will have to drop another $400-$800 on one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
sounds like you're contradicting yourself. "If he decides to turn up the boost and build a block then he will be stuck with whatever tranny he gets now" (Assuming he gets a GSR) "or he will have to drop another $400-$800 on one" (a future LS)
I"m confused
sounds like you're contradicting yourself. "If he decides to turn up the boost and build a block then he will be stuck with whatever tranny he gets now" (Assuming he gets a GSR) "or he will have to drop another $400-$800 on one" (a future LS)
I"m confused
11-28-2005, 07:24 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (LudeToAHatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeToAHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so... your car will dyno more power in 4th gear than it will in 3rd. Doesn't mean the car has more power in the taller gear, just means that it's pulling a harder load on the dyno.
You're not going to build boost by having longer gears, you build boost by RPM.
LS tranny = t3h suck </TD></TR></TABLE>
Just curious... Isn't boost built on load or the demand you put on your engine... So the guy talking about throwing 250 ft-lbs of torque out of a ls tranny has some merit. So a car that has alot of torque would accelerate well. And a car's acceleration would be base exactly on it's torque curve. Someone explain?
I know it's a bit off the subject.
so... your car will dyno more power in 4th gear than it will in 3rd. Doesn't mean the car has more power in the taller gear, just means that it's pulling a harder load on the dyno.
You're not going to build boost by having longer gears, you build boost by RPM.
LS tranny = t3h suck
</TD></TR></TABLE>Just curious... Isn't boost built on load or the demand you put on your engine... So the guy talking about throwing 250 ft-lbs of torque out of a ls tranny has some merit. So a car that has alot of torque would accelerate well. And a car's acceleration would be base exactly on it's torque curve. Someone explain?
I know it's a bit off the subject.
11-28-2005, 07:42 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (scartail)
I think it's funny how nobody ever wants to cut back on getting more power out of their engine, but will turn around and throw on a tranny with worse gearing because they are having traction problems.
The reason you have more traction problems with a better geared tranny is because your car is trying to accelerate faster! A tranny with shorter gearing has greater torque multiplication.
If you want to be faster use the GSR tranny.
The reason you have more traction problems with a better geared tranny is because your car is trying to accelerate faster! A tranny with shorter gearing has greater torque multiplication.
If you want to be faster use the GSR tranny.
11-28-2005, 08:02 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (LudeToAHatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeToAHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
sounds like you're contradicting yourself. "If he decides to turn up the boost and build a block then he will be stuck with whatever tranny he gets now" (Assuming he gets a GSR) "or he will have to drop another $400-$800 on one" (a future LS)
I"m confused
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No contradiction whatsoever. "He will be stuck (ls tranny) OR he will have to shell out more $$ later." Like Jeff said if the car is SLOW get an ls, if not get a gsr/b16/itr. You and a few others are suggesting an ls tranny, however he will NEED a tranny with better gearing if he pushes more power. Then he will have a tranyy that isn't worth **** to him and he will have to purchase another tranny later. I'm writing this in English right? READ Jeff Evans quote again.........simple.
sounds like you're contradicting yourself. "If he decides to turn up the boost and build a block then he will be stuck with whatever tranny he gets now" (Assuming he gets a GSR) "or he will have to drop another $400-$800 on one" (a future LS)
I"m confused
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No contradiction whatsoever. "He will be stuck (ls tranny) OR he will have to shell out more $$ later." Like Jeff said if the car is SLOW get an ls, if not get a gsr/b16/itr. You and a few others are suggesting an ls tranny, however he will NEED a tranny with better gearing if he pushes more power. Then he will have a tranyy that isn't worth **** to him and he will have to purchase another tranny later. I'm writing this in English right? READ Jeff Evans quote again.........simple.
11-28-2005, 08:53 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (KeyserSoze)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KeyserSoze »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No contradiction whatsoever. "He will be stuck (ls tranny) OR he will have to shell out more $$ later." Like Jeff said if the car is SLOW get an ls, if not get a gsr/b16/itr. You and a few others are suggesting an ls tranny, however he will NEED a tranny with better gearing if he pushes more power. Then he will have a tranyy that isn't worth **** to him and he will have to purchase another tranny later. I'm writing this in English right? READ Jeff Evans quote again.........simple. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Not to be rude, but if you read the entire post, you will see that I suggested the GSR tranny. I was actually siding with you. Don't be in such a rush to belittle. I apologize if I came across wrong, but the way you worded your last post was confusing. It makes sense to me now because you were assuming I implied he should get an LS tranny. Part of english is reading comprehension...
now that we're clear, I vot3 4 t3h GSR tranny
</TD></TR></TABLE>Not to be rude, but if you read the entire post, you will see that I suggested the GSR tranny. I was actually siding with you. Don't be in such a rush to belittle. I apologize if I came across wrong, but the way you worded your last post was confusing. It makes sense to me now because you were assuming I implied he should get an LS tranny. Part of english is reading comprehension...
now that we're clear, I vot3 4 t3h GSR tranny
11-28-2005, 08:58 PM
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Re: GSR or LS tranny??? (LudeToAHatch)
I didnt read the whole post but I've had many tranny's and unless its a track car I would totally vote for the LS tranny, its just much better for the street, you can actually drive on the freeway (yes i know you can with a b16 but it sucks revving your car that high for a long time)......and most people run shitty tires (not drag radials) on the street and the LS tranny does help.....My daily driver crx with LS turbo on 6lbs still doesnt have traction with an LS tranny with quaife LSD, so why the hell would I want shorter gears??