Jimster480

I currently have an ebay turbo.
This turbo specifically
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4...#ht_3959wt_939
I am on 12-14PSI. When i punch it I reach full boost @ 5500 when VTEC kicks.
I want to spool around 4000-4500, but I dont want to lose power by going with a smaller turbo itself. So I wanted to change the back housing to a .48, although I cant find any compatible back housings for the ebay turbo (I dont know if precision ones fit).

So I was looking at this page: http://www.precisionturbo.net/small-...bochargers.php
And I want to know if the 300-5031 Boosted with the .48AR 5 Bolt back housing would be good for me to fit my goals? It def has a high enough power rating to go up as high as I would want to go. I'm just wondering if it will spool when I want it to and if I will lose top end power because of that back housing.

eZpimpin21

Gt30r Gt35r They sustain value as well .

Jimster480

any other input ppls?

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

no one makes a turbine housing that is going to fit that turbo, turbine housings cost more than a whole chinese turbo so just buy the right chinese turbo for 150 bucks or find a used garrett for a few more bucks

Jimster480

ya unfortunately they dont make a turbo with a .48 AR back housing that is of any size. Only these small like 250 or 300HP .48Turbine .42Comp Turbos. Thats why I was looking into precision because of its .48 T3 back housing with 5bolt downpipe and a T4 Compressor housing and compressor that is about the same size as the one i have now. Because i cant go any bigger or it physically wont fit in teh car with A/C.

Jimster480

very nice fkn spam

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

There are those in a 5 bolt .48a/r that is a ford style exhaust housing. As stated, by the time you get that, you will be spending more money for the newer turbocharger than the entire value of the rest of your "kit".

Before we can even use any recommendations as to what can remotely work for you, you need to state power goals, fuel used, engine configuration, and the purpose of the car. Otherwise you're going to continue to get "GT35R" and "GT30R" suggestions with no knowledge of your engine, setup or power needs. Help us, help you a bit. you'll be happier

Jimster480

Its a D16 STD Size Vitara Build Y8 Block Z6 head Y8 Manifold, Mild cam. Its mated to a 99DX Tranny. Its my DD, I am looking for 350-400WHP, although I plan to run lower boost for DD and just turn the boost up to the max tuned setting for track days.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You need to state a budget that you're willing to spend for a turbocharger. Most 5 bolt "ford style" housings do cost additional money. T04B housings will fit for A/C without the need to grind the block. "Max power" doesn't help if we don't know a top end power goal. 350-400whp could be made by a multitude of turbochargers in the T-series family.

Jimster480

I just told you how much power I wanted to make...
Don't worry about the budget, i am just trying to find a good turbo for the money. If it comes out that I do need a expensive one to fit my goals then I will just save up and buy it. The ebay turbo I have right now is as big as I can go in order to keep AC. If the compressor housing gets any bigger it simply will not fit. there is about 1/4-1/2 inch between the turbo and the condenser fan, and thats with the fan pulled forward as much as it will go.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Do you want to stay journal, or ball-bearing cartridge? do you know the components needed if you decide to change to ball-bearing cartridge? Having the turbo reach full pressure under 20psi at 3800-4200 is no problem, but I would use a T04B housing ( currently you have what is considered a T04e which is a bit larger).

Whenever people say "no budget" and best "for the money", it still means there's a maximum amount you want to pay for a turbo. Coming from an E-bay setup, it doesn't tell us anything of what you're trying to spend to have this fit correctly. $700, $800. $900? there are 2 main possibilities that can work, but again, that budget limit may determine which one is best. It may be a time to PM or AIM me for more info.

Jimster480

No I don't know the parts required to swap to a ball bearing, I was considering buying a ball bearing turbo if that is what was needed to spool quicker. Will using a T04B housing cause me to make less power per PSI (I'm pretty sure it doesnt, just making sure)? When I pieced my ebay setup together it cost me about $900, because that is what fit my needs at the time. I am looking to spend as little as possible for the best turbo for me although if you really want numbers $400-1200.

Another question, are OBX turbos any good? I was roaming around looking for turbos when I found out that OBX makes turbos aswell. Has anyone had experience with these? Because they are very aggressively priced.

eZpimpin21

Yes..With the t04B the CFM's will be 15% Smaller at 15 Psi Papa,

Jimster480

http://www.extremepsi.com/store/cust...cat=508&page=1
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/cust...at=1516&page=1

I like these turbos, what do you guys think about them for my goal?
Now ball bearing or journal bearing?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

No. that is a very common misconception. The biggest change from T04B to T04E is approximately 25-40cfm on anything above 58lbs/min at over 2.2 pressure ratios. For the ones that the OP is looking for. I've created plenty of 61lbs/min in a t04b (the largest that the t04B can come in,) and still made over 530whp w/o a significant increase in IATs into the throttlebody. Perfect examples are the Silver surfer and the GT3255B that have been used for years with great responsive results. (Here is an example: http://htarchive.org/showthread.php?t=2052996)

Now if eZpimpin21 is referring to the H-3 and S-3 series of compressor wheels in the T04B, that is an issue of the wheel's aerodynamic design, not what housing that it is in.

"spooling faster" isn't just about reaching a set amount of boost quickly. What it seems that you're trying to do is to get the most effective powerband with torque that you can without sacrificing a lot of space of that particular need. when you get into something that's going to fit the bill for 300-400whp, T04B -T04E makes negligible difference in creating the power for the type of "street use" that you're looking for.

Ball-bearing turbochargers are an option of course, but once again, you must understand why they work the way that they do. The ball-bearing cartridge has lower rate of inertial dampening (less friction) working in conjunction with the right aerodynamic wheel design. They work together. Without that wheel design, the ball-bearing cartridge doesn't give that by-product of reaching a set pressure faster. reaching maximum pressure too fast on an FWD car won't necessarily give a better result, unless that result is to roast tires that much faster in lower gears. There are GT series alternatives that can work that are not ball-bearing and can save you the cost and change of fitment that is associated with the "R" series

Items that must be changed when going from the GT-"R" series to T-series include: 1) change in oil feed fittings and restrictors, 2) change in oil return flanges and return lines size 3) the mandatory use of water lines, and 4) (The OP) the possible changes needed in the turbine housing. All of these MUST be done in order to run the GT30R and GT35R, which will cost an additional $150-$200 in additional equipment on top of the turbocharger itself.

Those that may fit the bill of being able to allow a/c and still be in the 5 bolt turbine housing in a decent size are the GT3251, GT3255, and from the precision series (SC34 and SC44 , as well as their smaller billet line series). Those start at about $800 or so because of the additional cost using that 5 bolt ford-style housing. For a D16, you want to stay on the smaller side to take advantage of the stroke that the engine has.

Here's an example of a GT3251B in a high heat ceramic coating: Excuse the lack of background.




Hope this helps a little.

Jimster480

So your saying a SC50 is too big. SC44 sounds better considering that my current turbo is 44 Trim. I dont want it to spool too fast because spinning tires is gay. I have long gears and it seems to help alot with traction. I forgot about the R needing water cooling aswell. So ill scratch that because I dont want to have to do modifications. I'm really looking for a turbo that will fit my needs that is going to be plug and play with my current setup.

I looked at the SC44's and they have higher trims and higher HP ratings?
And the wheel's have bigger diameters.. I dont get why this is. If the SC50 is 50mm and 50 Trim compressor why would the lower # and higher # ones both be bigger?

Do you have any insight on OBX turbos? I emailed one of their distributors to see if they have anything in my size ranges.

I think you understand what i want now. I dont want to spool too fast but I want a larger usable powerband. Because as it is now I dont spool the full amount of boost until I hit VTEC @ 5500RPM. And my motor makes power though 7200, so at max I rev it to 7400. And your right about me not wanting to go to a small turbo because then I will lose the high end power.

da_dude

The sc44 is a 60 trim turbo. The sc50 will be fine for your HP goal but isn't going to be much better than your current turbo.

Jimster480

ya but wont it spool alot faster with a .48 Back housing? because my current turbo has a .63 back housing. its really the back housing that makes the difference with spool times.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Listen to what the shodan is telling you. The back housing doesnt make up all the difference in the spool characteristics of a turbocharger. yes the smaller ones spool quicker but thats not the only factor. wheel trim also plays a very big role.

Jimster480

ya well the SC50 is only a 50 trim. My current one is 44 Trim. There really arent any great turbos that make any kind of power with a smaller trim. If you know of one that fits my criteria then please send me a link.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I think you're confusing "trim" with wheel inducer diameter size. they are not the same thing. Simply because one is a bigger trim, doesn't mean it is a larger turbo or just makes more power. the exception is the 50 trim, 57, and 60 trim, but that is all based upon the fact that all three use a 75mm wheel exducer. Don't confuse 44 trim w/ SC44. that name designation is just for the Precision line. The 44 does not refer to trim in their nomenclature.

If you really plan to increase midrange power with the d16 later in the future, keep a .63 a/r. What is more important than any A/R of a housing is the wheel inside of it. Yes, changing housings can alter the characteristics of the turbo, but its only one small piece of the puzzle. you must look at the exhaust wheel itself that you plan to use. for this engine what I believe that you're describing, using a 2.559" stage III exhaust wheel is the best idea.

Here is what "trim" is for your further knowledge.

I did show an example of one of the good turbos that would be effective of what you're looking for (GT3251 pics were shown above). That is the general arena of size I was referring to.

Jimster480

I know what trim is. But the SC44's had bigger wheels aswell. Where would I get a turbo like this? And are you sure that a .63 is good? It just seems too big. Because I cannot find any turbo's that are of the same size as my current turbo, bolt up to my current setup and would spool faster than what I have right now other than the SC50. Who makes a GT3251, because there is no such thing on garretts site.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Wasn't trying to start any trouble, just making sure you understood. you seemed confused upon the nomenclature and you combined terms a bit. There are a ton more turbos that are used by garret than what is just listed on the garrett site, as the the GT3251 originally came in a 6bolt turbine housing w/ an internally gated actuator.(downpipe flanges for these were impossible to find!!) So that the turbo can be used more universally, its a matter of getting the compressor wheel w/ a better exhaust wheel into more universal housings. The Sc44 and SC50 use a different compressor wheel, but come in the exact same exhaust wheel. The .48A/R can be fine to use, but again, look at the purpose of the car; if you plan to exceed to over 400whp, you need to rid yourself of backpressure. The best way to do that is to go to the .63A/R. It will perform just fine. The GT3251 has slight (and I mean SLIGHT by about 2mm) smaller compressor wheel than a 50 trim 75mm exducer. you're only a D16, not some monster v8. If you want response, stay a bit smaller up front, with less backpressure in the rear turbine housing.

Here's an example of a GT3251B in a t04B housing on a B18B stock engine at 10psi of boost pressure w/ 9.2:1 compression. Notice the smooth torque curve that takes advantage of the engine's longer 89mm stroke. Guess what, you have similar stroke of your D16 engine, and it came in a 5 bolt configuration .63A/R.



PM me for availability of that turbo if your interested, but this is to say that in order for you to get a better powerband than what the e-bay turbo offered, in the same flanging as a 5 bolt ford style, for a quality one, you're looking at $800 because of that flange for the turbine housing. The T04B will work fine for 400whp. It's been done without any ill-effects

(you'd better make sure of this before you get a turbo at all. there are so many who think they have one flange and wind up with another, and have no choice but to cut the dp flange and get the right one.. especially e-bay stuff. Sending pictures of the turbine housing that you have now will help preventheadaches later.)

Jimster480

Doesnt static CR affect spool times though? Because my Compression ratio is 7.49.
I dont think I am going to exceed 400WHP. At least not any time soon, and if I got a .48 I could always get a new .63 back housing and swap it out right?

Yea I got confused with the naming of the Precision turbos. Because the SC5031 was a 50mm compressor wheel and a 50 trim. But the smaller Model #'s didnt follow suit. I just thought that the model number had some indication of the size, but looking at it now, there doesnt seem to be correlation between the two.
I just want some faster response and when I turn the boost up to 20PSI i am looking for around 350WHP. If I turn it up again in the future then it will be for race purposes and I know i will need a larger back housing, and if/when that time comes I will just change it again

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The fact that you're at 7.49:1 hurts you a bit (it does a lot of vitara guys at least from my experience w/ the D-series turbo ninja) no matter what housing you put on there. It doesn't effect "spool times" as much [I can't stand that term, but I get ya.] But this means that you will require over 2.5PR (a bit over 20psi) to get to about 400whp regardless.

Remember, whether you're 7.5:1 or 10.0:1, the total amount of power of a given turbocharger is the same; the difference is where a given amount of boost is most effective to make that power. Say for instance one has a GT35R, and it takes 15psi to make 450whp at 9.0:1. On the lower compression car (say 8.5:1), it takes over 23psi to make the same 450whp. The turbo can do the power level, regardless, but with the lower compression, it takes much more boost to get there. If you have something that is a bit more effective in terms of WHEEL CHOICE that can work a bit better with your compression, you may help with response, but a turbo can only do so much, the rest is on your engine and its ability to combust that air /fuel. [good cylinder head, and possibly a "turbo" cam comes to mind).

Perfect real world example.... Question: why is it that DSM guys need lots of boost to do minimum power that Honda guys need. Well, the reason why DSM guys w/ 7.8:1 compression (1st gen) use over 20-25psi to get to 350whp on smaller turbos is because 1) they can take a lot of back pressure, so the higher amount of boost doesn't effect them in the way of heat and backpressure as much) and 2) they choose smaller turbochargers who compressor maps and characteristics are most effective in high pressure (over 20psi) situations unlike hondas. They also use camshaft profiles specifically to enhance the abilities of a small turbocharger. This is why you don't see too many B-series 9.0:1 + 16G turbo around, though the Greddy kits use them at low boost pressures.

On a side note, and I reiterate as Tony1 has once stated, that "turbo cams" are made for the purpose of cars that use smaller turbochargers that are most effective in low end torque and midrange power. NA cams have been shown time and time again to help with top end power on BIG turbochargers (over 70lbs/min) whose purpose are mainly are for maximum airflow input.

In your case, going with a GT3251b or similar size in a .63/Ar is best because you need to eliminate backpressure as much as possible with amount of boost needed to make that power goal and be efficient. Changing backhousings later is both a waste of time and money. After that, you have to change downpipes anyway, unless that e-bay one is 3"..