so as the title says im going to start a new project. im tired of building 4x4s so im taking a leap into little tuner cars for the first time. i really just want a little car for driving fast and making noise with and i figure a civic would be good because of all the after market for them.

anyways im going to find an older civic. most likely a hatchback and im going to turbo it. the mechanics i can figure out on my own fairly easily, but im looking for info on the tuning. all my projects have either been old and carberated or newer and had a plug and play tuner like the diablo.

soo im basicly just wondering what i do once the car is mechanicaly capable of boost? i havent even started to look into tuner shops but from what i know there isnt any near me and i've never used a shop for any of my projects before so i would rather not start now if i dont need to. i've done some research but i cant really find any straight forward ansewers. i saw something about some ecu's you can just buy online but im not sure if they come make/model specific tuned or if there just ecu's actually capable of being tuned?

 

https://honda-tech.com/forced-induct...-read-1544043/

This thread is a little old but has good general info in it. Read the FAQ sticky at the top of the forced induction and engine management section. There is a lot of good information there.

 

It depends on the specific car, what you use for tuning. I have a 94 and a 97 civic, and those could use: hondata, Neptune, or crome, which rewrite the chip in the ecu to change tuning parameters. There are options for just about everything

 

Read the FAQs stickied at the top of this forum at least twice. It will answer any questions you have. Then go from there and decide on things like a power goal, will you use the engine that came in the car or will you do a swap first (this tends to be the biggest decision as it has significant bearing on the power levels you can reach on both stock internals and built internals), what kind of power band you want. As an example your typical d series motors can safely make around 225hp on stock internals before things like rods start to break. Whereas your typical b series motor can support 300-350 on stock internals depending on the fuel being used. Then there's vtec or no vtec. Vtec swaps cost more but they also make more power usually when compared to a similar non vtec b series. Also even a non vtec b series will make more power than a d series using an identical setup. B series motors are just more efficient and have better cylinder heads, then of course there's the fact that b series motors have two cams where d series are single cam unless you get a ZC.

Things like engine displacement, stock internals or forged, desired power levels, power band, purpose of the car, and the type of fuels available around you will all have a major influence on turbo sizing and the type of parts required to safely and reliably meet your goals.

The biggest factor of all is your budget. Just the parts of a basic turbo setup using quality parts is going to be around 3,000 at minimum at it rises quickly from there. Hell a ball bearing turbo can easily cost 1,800 depending on size. Then there's the cost of tuning, expect to pay 400-500 for a standard single fuel type, single boost level tune. Flex fuel tuning, race gas, multiple pressure levels, as well as the type of engine management you use can all raise the price of tuning significantly.

So you need to figure out all of this before buying your first part or starting to work on the car.

 

mkay well were would you all start? my power goal isnt really HP related. more just looking for enough power to put me back into the seat, and easily burn the tires. im not really sure how much HP would be needed to smoke the tires in a civic.
its going to be sort of a budget build. a few grand for the car and for the turbo im going to get everything off ebay except the turbo itself.
so what car should i be looking for? only want to spend a few grand and i want to boost a stock engine.
i work way out in the bush and come home once a month for a week so the car will be done for the end of the summer or sooner if the parts arrive quickly.

 

i've been looking around online a bit and im thinking as far as body style goes i want something from the late 80's

 

scratch that. old civics seam to underpowered stock to be worth putting time into. will be going newer then 80's forsure. any idea's? im home in a few weeks and want to track down the car im getting before im home.

 

Well what's your budget for the actual car? That will determine what you can affor and what condition it will probably be in. The more popular platforms are by no means cheap if they are clean. I lucked out and got a super clean 97 ex coupe with brand new paint, super clean overall, low miles, 3 owners, etc for 4500 in 2010 because I'm just awesome that way lol.

To compare I paid around 13-14k for a mint 99 si show car back in 04.

Depending on where you live, a 92-95 car will be easier because they are obd1. With a 96 and newer you'll have to swap the stock ecu and related components back in to pass the emissions test. This can be quite annoying depending on how radical your build is (ask me how I know lol. I predict my current 97 civic won't be able to run on the stock ecu at all with the motor I'm building) where as with the obd1 cars as long as you have a decent tune and healthy cat you'll pass emissions. Although if you live in Cali it's even harder. All of this is moot if you live in a state or county with no emissions.

If you buy a 1990 or older car they are now emissions exempt as they are 25 years old, so that's something to keep in mind, as in a few years the more popular chassis will start being emissions exempt.

 

well my budget for the car is kinda anything up to about 4k. i would rather spend 2... but if i could get a wicked deal on something i could go to 4k....
theres a bunch of early 2000's civics for sale near where i live for 2800 to 4500. none of the ads say the trim level so im assuming there not the si or here its badged the SIR. im in bc canada.

so basicly what im going to fall back to what i want. is it possible to get enough power out of a early 90's or late 80's civic with a turbo to burn the tires on a stock engine?

i want to keep the engine stock because as everyone knows as soon as you crack an engine it opens up a can of worms that ends up being a full performance rebuild and i dont want that. i just want to make noise and smoke tires without chewing up 38" tires that cost 500$ a piece.

 

Don't forget to check out integras man... you can ****** one for around 2-4.5 k and even get a gsr as low as 3-3.5k, b18c would make a great engine for a stock motor turbo build.

 

what year integra should i be looking for? i've never been into tuners so correct me if im wrong are the integra's and civics basicly the same platform/drivetrain?

 

Essentially yes. Integras use a slightly different suspension design though.

90-95 are the years that will be the easiest to turbocharge due to being obd1. The 90-93 DA5-DA9 hatchback body style is one of my personal favorites. 94 was the introduction of the DB (4dr) and DC (hatchback) integras that you'll probably know better by their 4 round headlights. Again once you get into 1996 model year and newer cars you get into the obd2 emissions system. Obd2a 96-98 and obd2b from 98 on. Both systems are essentially the same but each have different style engine harnesses and ecu plugs.

You can easily convert these to run a chipped obd1 ecu using a simple plug and play conversion harness. If your area has emissions all you need to do for your obd2 scan test is put the stock ecu back in, stock injectors, stock sensors (if you're using an aftermarket map sensor like a 2.5bar or 3bar that read higher pressure levels. Which is going to be a likely possibility since the OEM sensors can only measure pressure to 11psi), and then either pull the wastegate spring, remove a charge pipe, or both so you can't get into positive pressure and just drive it normally until it passes the readiness checks.

And again if your purpose is just a stock internal setup then the b series is what you'll want. They can support 300-350 with a good tune and proper maintenance. D series are only daily driver reliable to about 220-230. Granted if you kill a d series they are fairly cheap to replace. You could put stronger internals in either motor for right around 500 dollars if you decide you want more power later. Forged h beam rods and Nippon cast pistons have been proven to support something like 500hp without issue (this was the last time I checked, that number could have gone up) but regardless of the internals or power levels a reliable setup is all in the tune, maintenance schedule, and how you drive the car.

The biggest issue you're going to encounter in your price range is how healthy the motor in the car is. Try to find as virgin of a car as possible. Typically modifications mean someone was more than likely driving the car a bit hard. If the person selling you the car is in their late teens/early twenties I would just walk away. We all beat the **** out of things at that age lol. Before you purchase anything I would absolutely perform a compression and leak down test at minimum. This will tell you how healthy the motor is and if it will safely survive forced induction. Now if the numbers come back less than ideal that's negotiation power to get the price down. If the price is good enough you could buy the car and spend a couple hundred dollars to refresh the internals.

A quick hone on the cylinders, fresh rings, new bearings, and gaskets are all you need. Then you know for sure the motor is good to go, assuming you assembled the bottom end correctly and break it in properly.

Again read the forced induction FAQ thread stickied at the top and read the link boosted94gsr posted and you'll have all of your questions answered and a firm grasp of what it takes to have a reliable turbocharged honda.

 

im going to read those threads right now. still wondering though, will these cars smoke the tires? i hate the idea of getting a car and putting hours into it and not being able to lay some rubber.

 

This is my car turned down to 14psi about 280whp or so I'm guessing. You don't need a whole lot of power in these light cars for them to move pretty good.

 

Constant traction issues is something you don't want with a fwd car, turbocharged fwd cars already suffer from bad torque steer as is.

It's not so much how much power you make but how it's delivered. A smaller turbo setup with a flat linear torque curve won't have nearly the traction issues of a larger turbo setup where power is suddenly delivered in one large surge. That and tire sizing and tire compound.

Plus without an LSD you're just going to peg leg it

 

Like Wantboost is suggesting, if you want to avoid traction issues and also have a more streetable setup, error on the small side when making your turbo selection.

If you're looking to get into this without spending a ton, your best bet is either a D series 1.6L Single cam VTEC (limited to 220whp stock) or an LS 1.8L dual cam non-vtec (limited to ~300whp stock). D's are cheap to build and simple piston/rod setups will put you in the 450whp range at which point you'll start running into sleeve reliability.

There are trade-offs with anything you choose.

 

I should have mentioned in the video I posted I'm running boost by gear so traction was pretty good. I'm not running an lsd and on higher boost torque steer is pretty bad lol.

If you want a cheap fun to drive setup my vote is a basic turbo b18b1 non-vtec. The engines are cheap and they will have more power out of boost then and d series.

 

ok so since i want to have traction issue i should be ok? im literaly going to build this car for driving around, smoking the tires and making noise. no mufflers and tire spinning action is all i want.... traded my challenger in a year ago on a new pickup and i need to fill the void that it left in my life

 

That literally makes no sense

 

i think it makes perfect sense. there is a few comments on how to avoid traction issue's, you know like tires spinning. and i want the tires to spin so im ok with traction issues.
and the comment about the challenger is just explaining my need for a car that burns tires and makes lots of noise. if you've ever driven an str8 with the 6.4 you will understand the void or empty feeling you have after you get rid of it when you want to go do brunouts and just make lots of noise.

 

so in the end am i better off looking for a d series with the 1.6 or the ls 1.8?
the 450hp d series after a slight build sounds tempting but im not sure i want to crack the engine open. what kinda of hp can i safely pull from the b18b1 stock?

 

300-350, 300 on 93, 350 on e85

So basically you want to be a mustang owner

 

k, will most likely end up with a ls 1.8 so i can keep it stock. if not i'll go for a d series. now that thats figured out its time to hit up craigslist. if anyone sees any decent cars for a good deal in southern bc let me know

and no i dont want to be a mustang owner LOL my challenger killed gt500's and looked better, plus you cant beat the grumble of a na 6.4. mustangs are for old fogeys and teenagers.

 

that being said though i would love to race mustangs with a civic and win

 

I could burn the tires in my 98 civic ex pretty well and the thing was completely stock with 175,xxx miles when I got it. You wanna burn tires? sounds a little unpractical to me. But hey, whatever floats your boat. A simple d series turbo setup sounds like it'd be good idea for you. Cheap to do and cheap to repair/replace if you blow it up. If I were you, I'd go d turbo. Just my o2.