sc34dc4

iTrader: (1)

So my car is finally finished and Monday @ 10am is my dyno appt. Anyways I have a basemap that was provided by xenocron when they chipped my ecu. I have to drive about 1.5hrs to my tuner and most of the driving is uphill mountains and stuff. I don't want the car to go into boost while being untuned so if I just take off my bov until I get there will this e ok? It won't make oost but I'm worried about the turbo. I've heard about free spinning or over spinning it. Thanks H-T

lilpat93accord

No, it won't be ok. You must not know the purpose of a BOV. I would suggest putting the car on a trailer.

nowtype

If he takes off the BOV, it will be a massive boost leak. He'll never build boost but his turbo will spin.

I'd contact your tuner and Xenocron for their advice. The safest bet is a tow/trailer. If you aren't an idiot and the hills aren't really steep, you should be okay driving the car on a basemap, with the BOV installed.

What's your setup, specifically exhaust size, turbo, manifold, & injector size.

97ek-t

take the spring out of the wastegate..

sleepinonacreeper

that works too.


just leave the bov off. it will be fine, i promise. oh and please dont take the spring out of your gate.

ashb82

Hual the car but if you dont have the means to do that then
Take out the wastegate spring x2
if you have a wideband dont let it get lean or to rich. I would think a stock ecu, stock injectors, and stock map sensor would be the best to use, if you dont have some kinda wild build. Then get to the tuner 1 hour early and install all this in the parking lot. i have seen this done before. but you could still have some problems.

_kiid

take the charge pipe off
or just tow it

markaria

just stay outta boost... drive it below 3k rpm and keep your foot out of it and as long as your basemap is for your injector size you should be fine.

sc34dc4

iTrader: (1)

I have no way of towing the car. I had them make the basemap off my setup. 3" exhaust and downpipe. Sc34 turbo and precision 1000cc injectors. I'm gonna drive it easy as humanly possible but I still have some big mountains to go up.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

sc34dc4

iTrader: (1)

So what's the difference between removing the charge pipe or the bov? Both will make it so the car doesn't create boost.

AMLS4dr200whp

this is what i would do

Silva Bullit DC4

Depending on what BOV you have, removing the charge pipe will be alot easier is prolly the real reason why. For example, I got an HKS ssqv, so in my case, I would rather unscrew a simple t-bolt clamp & pop the charge pipe off than try and remove a tight *** snap ring on the BOV flange.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

^^ BINGO!!

shocker911

just remove the charge pipe from the throttle body and you will be fine


let us know what you put down...im running the same set up for my LSV w/ rods and pistons.

what is your build?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Here's a VERY DETAILED Checklist you should go through while you're at it. Copy and paste this to WORD and make a printout to put next to the car as you get ready for your appt. Don't waste your time & money and the tuner's time because you didn't check things thoroughly.

Here is a list of things that should be checked before coming for a tuning appointment.:

Electrical:

1. Wiring

The engine's wiring harness should not have any exposed wires. NO wires should be twisted together and taped! Make sure all wire connections are soldered and heat shrinked together. This ensures that you have good continuity in the wire, as well as adequate shielding. Some of the most common wiring issues are injector clips being twisted together (huge no-no), improperly installed resistor packs, dis-installed VAFC controller wiring exposed and not being taped.

2. Check engine lights

If you are using a stock ecu (i.e. hondata, neptune, uberdata) and have a check engine light, you need to find out the codes that are tripped. Depending on what codes are tripped, it can make it virtually impossible for a tuner to tune your car. In order to see what codes are being thrown, you need jump the service connector. The service connector is located above the factory ecu. Its a two wire plug, located in a green boot. You have to pull the plug out the green boot. Once its out, in order to "jump" the connector you need to use a paper clip or piece of wire. You simply put both ends of the wire or paper clip into service connector, completeing the circuit. If you have a complete circuit, the check engine light will now start to blink. It will be a series of long and short blinks. For example, two long blinks and two short blinks. The long blinks would represent 2x. The two short blinks would represent x2. Putting both together you would get a code 22, which would be vtec oil pressure switch. Now if you jump the service connector, and you dont get the CEL to blink at all, there is an issue with the stock ecu. If you are using a chipped ecu, there is something wrong with either the chip, or the external chip circuit that was installed into the ecu. A list of obd-1 ecu codes:

1 Primary Oxygen Sensor (HO2S).
3 Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP).
4 Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP).
6 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT Sensor).
7 Throttle Position Sensor.
8 Top Dead Center Position Sensor (TDC).
9 No. 1 Cylinder Position Sensor (CYP).
10 Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor.
13 Barometric Pressure (BARO) Sensor.
14 Idle Air Control (IAC) Valve.
15 Ignition Output Signal.
16 Fuel injector.
17 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS).
20 Electric load detector.
21 VTEC Solenoid Valve.
22 VTEC Pressure switch.
30 A/T FI signal A.
31 A/T FI signal B.
41 Oxygen sensor heater.
43 Fuel supply system.

3. Battery

I have experienced many tuning appointments that were cut short due to failing alternators or weak batteries. Before a tuning appointment you should verify that your alternator is in good working condition. An easy way to verify that your alternator is in working condition is multimeter the battery and make sure that the voltage is staying around 12-13 volts. If over time at idle it starts to drop below 12 volts, and gets progressively worse your alternator is going bad. If your engine cranking is weak on engine start-up, your battery is weak. You can do one of two things. One, check each cell on a "wet cell" battery to make sure the distilled water level is up to full. If not fill it, and put a deep cycle battery charger on it to bring it back up. Two, just get a new battery!

4. Fuel pump

This is somewhat related to electrical aspect since its part of the electrical system. If you are replacing your stock fuel pump with an aftermarket fuel pump, while you have the gas tank open make sure there is no rust or sediment in the tank. I have several customers car that have had dirt, rust and other debris in the tank, and have caused fuel starvation during a tuning appointment. If rust is present, replace the tank! Do not install the new fuel pump, you'll ruin the seals pumping the rust through it. If dirt is present, drop the tank and clean it out with alcohol.

Mechanical:

1. Engine

The internal combustion engine is a very complicated machine. Due to this nature, before a tuning appointment its neccessary to check the engine vitals to ensure that the engine is in a healthy state. This includes doing a compression and leakdown test. Listed below is a estimated engine static compression vs compression test results that you should see:

8:1~8.5:1 compression: 150-170 psi per cylinder

8.5:1~9.5:1 compression: 170-210 psi per cylinder

9.5:1~11:1 compression: 210-275 psi per cylinder

11:1+ compression: 250+ per cylinder (highly depends on cams being used)

This is an estimate. What the goal is to have no more than 20 psi variances between each cylinder. Ideally you want to see as close of compression between cylinders as possible. If you see a large variance in one of the cylinders (more than 20psi+), there are a few more steps that should be taken:

a. Put a cap full of oil down the spark plug hole. Redo the compression test. If the compression goes up more than 15-20psi, your rings arent sealing and need to be replaced. The oil temporarily seals the damaged part of the ring, and gives higher compression.

b. Do a leak down test. While doing the leak down test keep your radiator cap off of the radiator. Get each cylinder up to TDC at the piston, as well as TDC at the valves. The firing order is 1-3-4-2. Its easiest to check what cylinder is at TDC with a long rod touching the top of the piston, at the peak of its travel you are at TDC on either 1 and 4, or 2 and 3. With the leakdown test you should see less than 10%. If you are seeing more than 10%, listen to where the air pressure is escaping. Put your finger over the oil dipstick hole on the block. If the rings are shot, or you have a hole in the piston the dipstick hole will get pressurized, and you'll feel the pressure on your finger tip covering the hole. Watch the coolant with the radiator cap off. If while doing the leak down test you see bubbling on a specific cylinder, the headgasket is tore or the sleeve sunk in that cylinder (those with sleeved blocks). The air pressure is getting past the headgasket and pressurizing the coolant jacket, causing the bubbling.

If you getting white smoke it indicates you are burning coolant. This can happen with a bad headgasket, sinking sleeve or cracked sleeve. The leak down test should confirm this by the bubbling in the radiator. If you are getting blue smoke you are burning oil, this can be from worn rings, bad valve guides or valve stem seals, or turbo seals are shot (if you are turbo). If you are getting black smoke you are running rich. You should be able to smell a rich condition if you are getting black smoke.

Valve lash on the engine should be set before the tuning appointment. Its a good idea to check the last every 20,000 miles with a stock engine, and even more with a higher revving modified engine, espeically with aftermarket camshafts installed. If you are using OEM camshafts, set the valve lash to stock with the engine bone cold. If you do it while the engine is hot, the metal expansion rate is much different, and you are set the valves to loose. If you are using aftermarket camshafts, set the valve lash to the manufactuers suggestion. This is typically a little looser than OEM settings. I have seen pretty drastic power gains with forced inductions engines having the valvelash not being set properly.

2. Turbo system

Some of the more common issues that occur with turbo components are the following:

a. Piping blowing off during the tuning session. Make sure that you have the ends of the intercooler/charge piping with a ridge so that the clamps can bite into coupler material. I prefer to use t-bolt clamps. These provide a much higher and more even clamping force over the entire piping area. Having piping blow-off during the tuning session will make it impossible for the tuner to tune the car.

b. Exhaust manifold bolts being loose. One of the most critical aspects that is often overlooked is loose exhaust manifold bolts. If you have loose exhaust manfolds bolts, exhaust pressure is getting bleed off. This does two things:

1. Causes slower spool depending on how bad its leaking.

2. Causes power loss due to lack of exhaust pressure in the exhaust manifold. Turbines apply work to the compressor through the exhaust pressure. Having a lack of the pressure makes the compressor less efficient, and therefoe a powerloss. I have measured 10-30whp gains by fixing leaks and tightening exhaust bolts down.

Other things to check are the wastegate bolts, as well as the turbo to manifold bolts. Any leaks will cause a pressure loss in the manifold, and therefore a power loss.

c. O2 sensor hole not being open up enough for the wider/larger bosch sensors common with PLX/AEM/Tech Edge/etc widebands. This seems lika a no brainer, but i have had to uninstall many customers downpipes and headers to dremel out the hole larger. This takes 1-2 hours out of the tuning appointment to take out the material. When installing your downpipe, feel with your finger to make sure there is no extra metal flashing inside of the o2 bung hole. If there is, dremel it out as it will most likely cause an issue with your tuners wideband sensor.

d. Make sure your blow off valve is tight enough. Most aftermarket bov's have an adjustment screw on them. You want to tighten down the adjustment screw so that you can hear the bov working, but no loose enough that its going off prematurely out of boost. Its easiest to watch your boost gauge. If you in vacuum, and the bov goes off its too loose. You want the bov to open up coming out of boost pressure only.

e. Oil feed and return lines. With the oil feed lines, use a -3 A.N feed or restrictor fitting if necessary. The goal is to make sure that you dont get to much oil pressure built up against the turbine shaft ring. With the return line you want to make sure that the fitting is welded high up on the oil pan to ensure proper drain. The line should descend downwards to the pan. It should not be level, or go uphill. If it does you risk improper drainback, and getting to much oil pressure built up against the CHRA and possibly ruin them. Typical symptom; a lot of blue smoke from the exhaust with a healthy engine. Check the return/feed lines.

f. Turbo shaft play. Before the tuning appointment check the turbo shaft play. You should not be able to move the turbo shaft more than 1/16" in any direction. If you can, your turbo thrust bearings are probably shot and you need a rebuild. Tuning the car with shaft play will give very poor power production since turbine/compressor efficiency goes way down.

sleepinonacreeper

thankfully he has all of the things taken care of. he has a great setup and a mechanically sound car.

rev-speed

no one around u has a wideband?

0xenocron

Do this...its the best advice besides towing.

Taking the spring out of the wastegate makes it IMPOSSIBLE to boost and also means you CANNOT over spin your turbo.

Taking out the BOV or a charge pipe off puts ZERO resistance on the turbo compressor and you will EASILY overspin the turbo.

DUKE LADUKE

Tow it !!!!

icucnme

Car was driven to the dyno without the bov attached. Not a single problem as I figured. Tuned and beat on while driving home. It's fine. Here are a few pics of the days events.
Made 272wp and 314tq on 14psi but we turned it down to 10psi which resulted in 156whp and 140ish tq

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Very well done. The charge pipe or BOV can be removed without overspinning the turbo. Overspinning occurs when there are SUDDEN changes in pressure (as in where a charge pipe BLOWS OFF after being in positive high pressure, immediately going from 16psi ----> 0psi )

when the charge pipe is detached at start up going to a tuner, in normal driving not in positive pressure it is as though the car is N/A since it only goes to 0 vacuum. No overspin.

some BOVs can't be detached that easily, and people risk tearing the diaphram when reassembling the system sometimes.

SovXietday

Wow, this is news to me. Bad news actually.

Done that a million times, but always get off right away as soon as I feel it happen (usually ends with me almost smacking my face on the steering wheel anyway). I blow charge pipes at upwards of 25psi sometimes too.

How common is this? Just curious, always thought that overspinning a turbo was caused by little resistance for the compressor basically causing the shaft to spin too fast to be cooled and lubricated correctly by the oil. IE, heat buildup, which usually needs some length of time.

hmoobhero

whats your setup? looks like a ls? stock internal?

so at 14psi, 272hp 314tq, wow thats alot of torque.
and at 10psi, only 156hp 140tq, kinda low. or did you mean 256hp 240tq?

Speed_1

^^ that is what i am wondering nice torque