Well, I never thought that i would decide to go back to all motor. After dealing with so many problems with my car in the past few months, I have reached my limit. While my turbo stuff was fun for the time that i have been involved with it, I dont feel like i have the reliablity anymore. Every other day intercooler piping blows off, even after using double t bolt clamps and welding a bead around my piping. Traction is non exsistent, even with good tires and my larger turbo (60-1) at around 300whp. I get in races, and i just spin the tires and end up getting walked by cars making way less power. I have a 2.0 liter sleeved, and built engine sitting in my basement ready for installment, but I am 99% sure I want to yank out the 9:1 wiseco's and drop in 13:1 custom JE's in place. I am heading towards this set-up:

2.0 gsr block
13:1 custom JE's, Eagle rods
Portflow'd b16a head, full ferrea valve train
Skunk2 stage 2 cams, cam gears
TWM ITB's/Hondata intake manifold gasket
An-r.com equal length tubular header
4.929 ATS final drive/Quaife limited slip/Clutchmasters stage 5 and flywheel

I have spoke to a few all motor guys in my area, claiming that combo on slicks should run mid 11's easily. Its very tempting, especially since i have 85% of the parts laying at my house. Someone please give me some honest opinions on why i should stay with my FI set-up on my 2.0 block.

 

Its posts like there that make me second guess going turbo again. While turbo if fun and fast as hell, there is always something. All motor is so much more reliable. Oh, what to do, what to do.

 

bah all motor sounds like crap

 

Jeff, stick it out man, it'll be worth it in the end. 13:1 street driven is just as unreliable as 15psi on your turbo. Paul

 

I used to be all about all motor but I have seen the light and I feel every car should have a turbo on it.

 

very true

 

I dont understand why it will be as unreliable though. No one gives me a straight answer about why all-out all motor set-ups are not reliable. Please let me know, everyone keeps telling me that its reliable as low boost turbo.

 

all motor tune = more money than turbo tune

 

Think about it. High compression pistons make more cylinder pressure? Turbos do something similar except by using a turbocharger and not higher comp pistons. All motor engines also tend to run higher RPMs. That can be dentrimental to your engine as well. They both have there upsides and as well as there downsides.

 

are the IC pipes blowing off the only reason for the unreliability? u could try using a brace that runs off the different IC pipes to and connects to a part of the car/IC/motor etc. this way, they would actually be held in place with the tbolt clamps and other fasteners.

 

you're gonna kick yourself if you walk from that 60-1 setup!

take your time man. do it right. find the problems. think them through. post them here. its a big project with big rewards. all motor is cool if u have 5.7liters to play with.

 

the piping falls off even if you use t-bolt clamps?

did you try a brace? I had that problem with my throttle body. No matter how good i clamped the tb down, it would come out. So I made a brace for it.







[Modified by ekb18c, 8:12 PM 1/13/2003]

 

i like those rpm intake manifolds.

 

Jeff you wuss Whats up man its Scott. I was looking foward to seeing your hatchcrap run at e-town this year, oh well. Let us know how it turns out, will you be investing in some itb's ? You should I know you can afford it, lol. You will still be ready for the coming season right ?

 

Hey TURD.. .dont get out of it... just stick with it for a while..or maybe try to get another car to go n/a and keep the turbo honda the way it is now.
ive always liked n/a. i still do. I will have an N/A honda one day(along with a turbo one) but for now im going boosting. n/a is fun, so is fi.
i bet youll miss the torque!

 

Man, looking at all the new parts to redo my rest of my set-up the 3rd time around I just cant back out on it! I keep staring at my 2.0 block sitting there finished, and know that deep inside me I know that turbo is the best route for me. I am just going to stick with it, and finish the build-up. I am seriously so close to finishing, just have to install the quaiffe into the tranny, bolt up the clutch and flywheel then drop it into the car and fab up my intercooler piping. I guess you are guys are right about the piping problem, I am going for double t-bolt clamps, with double beads welded around the piping for each clamp. After examining my drag piping, it seemed that there was to much tension on the charge pipe running to the throttle body. I think this was mostly due to the crappy fitment from Drag. I am hoping with my custom fitted piping that stress should be minimized, and hopefully keep the damn pipes on. That has to be the worst feeling going from 350whp, to 150whp within a second...kind of like hitting a brick wall.

As far as the lack of traction, the quaife and a new 60-1 .82a/r housing should do the trick with a new set of azenis tires that i just picked up last week. I was orginally going to just keep the .63a/r housing, but after experiencing wheel spin in every single gear I want more lag and more peak power that i can hopefully put to the ground. If you guys have anymore suggestions on traction, I'd love to hear them.

For the unreliable part, I have had so many issues with hondata between breaking the eprom chip legs, to frying the eprom burner. Most where my stupid mistakes, but stuff like the radiator cap blowing off, to blowing up three stock integra radiators in a row (dont even ask how, still havent figured that one out myself) were things out of my control. Even simple things like my 4 piston wilwood brakes took a month to install this summer, do to getting wrong parts over and over again. I have had the car tow'd by AAA probably 8-9 times in the last few months, the stuff gets overwhelming.

 

dude i totally hear you on all those notes - you just missed two parts; AAA saying they wont tow your car because its "modified" and of course ignitors hehe. the story of my life.

as far as your piping goes, redo it right and i guarantee it will not blow off anymore. For the tires, try to run a 245/50/15 BFG drag radial and you will have *much* beter traction. I was doing a burnout to 130 mph on my stupid 555R pos drag radials, for a high power turbo car you need to be on the BFGs, 555Rs are worthless.

edit: those goddamned hondata chips are gonna be the end of me... i almost go into convulsions everytime the damn legs bend or an EEPROM decides in the middle of a drive that it doesnt want to hold the program anymore so it will just become a blank EEPROM with a blinking red LED.


[Modified by FFgeoff, 1:25 AM 1/14/2003]

 

That's the spirit. We don't want u to leave the FI family.


[Modified by TurboD16Z6, 12:27 AM 1/14/2003]

 

The cure for your Hondata woes is the AEM EMS.

I am glad you are keeping your forced induction setup though. I don't think you would like all-motor anyway. They usually make lots of torque and have big problems hooking up!

All-motor can be the least reliable because of the piston speeds it requires to make big power. The greatest stress that the rod encounters is the exhaust stroke on an NA car according to Corky Bell. Seems hard to believe, but he says the turbo is actually easier on the rotating assembly because it supplies a cushion of air for the piston to ease this stress.

The thermal load is higher by far, granted. I have also heard it is hellatious to keep those ITB's tuned!

 

I know you decide to stick turbo but I wanted to comment neways

The way I see is a turbo car runs low compression maybe 80% of the time on the street right? I know when I am driving around the only time in town I an in boost for long time is up hills, now an allmotor car is always running high compression. I mean with a turbo on the street you basically have a built motor than is putting out low hp until you really get on it. Also on that note an all motor car will have bigger traction issues because the power is always there and a turbo has lag so you get a small leap at a low hp before the boost really sets in....my .02

 

Atleast your car is getting towed. Mine has been sitting on jack stands the entire time you have been boosting.

Dont say that word. 3 swaps in 3 days and 3 bad ignitors....aahh.

 

Hey Jeff, did you change your mind on this yet?
I checked mine and i dont think my charge pipes are coming off like we thought, i think that abrubt loss of boost is my wastegate fully opening becuase its maxed.
Just thought id let you know since we couldnt find a pipe that came off last night when it happened .
Thanks for the help man , and like i siad . . . . even with NA , you will still have probs, just diff ones. all cars become unreliable to some point when modified. just something to think about .

 

There is nothing like hearing VTEC at 10,500RPM and 13:1 compression, let me tell you that! to whatever you decide, we have both an LS/T and a B20/VTEC in the family hehe. They both have their ups and downs.

 

The Quaife will make a big difference with traction.

 

ya that 2.0 turbo will be a screamer my boy that did my ls swap has a itr all motor like 13.5:1 compression... the dude goes through mugen head gaskets like nothing allways takin the head off to replace it.. i havnt seen a turbo honda yet that blows head gaskets every week but thats my 2 cents


peace