EF-1
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From: Maui, Hawaii, United States
EF-1
Does the EF-1 Valve train work well with other cams, I had m21 cams on back order but am thinking of canceling the cams and just getting the valves , springs, and retainers. I think if I wait on the cams ill wait for months more to come.
What kind of cams work well with a modified turbo b18c1, not looking for wild cams , just street good idle cams.
What kind of cams work well with a modified turbo b18c1, not looking for wild cams , just street good idle cams.
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Irvine, CA, usa
Re: EF-1 (TurboTeG4)
I was just told that the EF-1 springs have a very high seat pressure. I think you have to be careful what cam you use with that spring.
Having said that, many here have made over 600 whp using stock gsr cams. The key seems to be short duration, lower overlap cams. The gsr cams fall into that category. Do you have the specs on the M21? Without the specs, you are buying a pig in the poke. Big cams not needed for turbo big power.
Having said that, many here have made over 600 whp using stock gsr cams. The key seems to be short duration, lower overlap cams. The gsr cams fall into that category. Do you have the specs on the M21? Without the specs, you are buying a pig in the poke. Big cams not needed for turbo big power.
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From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Re: EF-1 (TurboTeG4)
you can get by with ITR outers/portflow inners, and rocket's titanium retainers.
The rocket (used to be EF-1, now rocket) springs are more for strip cars. The spring combination I described will let you rev high and will run fine with ITR/GSR cams.
The rocket (used to be EF-1, now rocket) springs are more for strip cars. The spring combination I described will let you rev high and will run fine with ITR/GSR cams.
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From: Tallahassee, FL, US
Re: EF-1 (earl)
As I remember the EF-1 valve springs have a 95lbs at the seat pressure. He garantees them to 10,500 with a 12.5mm lift camshaft(or the M24E that he sells). The M21 camshaft is similar in duration to the GSR cams with about 1.5mm more lift.
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Posts: n/a
Re: EF-1 (Jared)
The EF-1 valvetrain is no longer called EF-1. From what i heard Rockets so called partner had some differences and split and now its call Rocket motorsports vavletrain.
Modified by www.abunairacing.com at 12:12 AM 12/8/2003
Modified by www.abunairacing.com at 12:12 AM 12/8/2003
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Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 189
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From: Vancouver, 604
Re: EF-1 (www.abunairacing.com)
http://www.abunairacing.com
no need for hearsay in this forum..
and from what jared said m21's
im using the valvetrain and some of my customers they all give it
no need for hearsay in this forum..
and from what jared said m21's
im using the valvetrain and some of my customers they all give it
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From: Bakersfield, CA
Re: EF-1 (DouLik Industries)
I have been running the ef-1 (rocket motorsports) springs/retainers for close to 8 months now with not 1 problem at all..I have had..gsr,type r, and m22 cams used on these same springs with no problem..I just pulled the whole head apart to do a full; engine build up and the springs and retainers look like they are brand new.also my brother in laws car has had the same springs and retainers installed for some time on type r cams and his is working very well with no issues at all..
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Irvine, CA, usa
Re: EF-1 (Jared)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jared »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">M21 specs per Rocket's website: 274 deg duration, 11.6mm of lift. That is for both sides. For comparison, the GSR cam has 10.6mm and 9.4mm of lift respectively.</TD></TR></TABLE>What is rocket's web site that has these specs. You need to know at what lift the duration is measured from (it's not at zero) to do a good comparison.
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From: Vancouver, 604
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,765
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Re: EF-1 (Jared)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jared »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm almost certain rocket measures his durations at 1mm.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The duration listed is gross duration.
But as you know Jared the cams make power over GSR cams.
The duration listed is gross duration.
But as you know Jared the cams make power over GSR cams.
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2002
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Re: EF-1 (Rocket)
Spring Pressure - Please Read
I know that Arturbo, Earl, and Larry Widmer are extremely knowledgeable about IC engines and such and I respect their position on spring pressure.
However, I am one of the few if only that like alot of spring pressure (notably seat pressure) and always have. The Rocket springs and retainers have zero reported failures for over the 1.5 years with various camshafts from stock, Skunk, Toda, etc. I haven't seen anyone complain yet to me or hear on H-T.
The extra seat pressure keeps things happy and provides a very good cushion for driver error. I have a friend/customer that takes his B16 to 10-11k every drive for over a year now and the head is still in one peice.
If you have the following things on your engine/car you need more spring pressure.
1. More rpm
2. More cam (specifically ramp) lift
3. Lightened Flywheel and pullyes
4. Boost
5. Higher final drive
6. More HP per cylinder (kinda goes under boost)
7. Compression braking
Most aftermarket springs are good to 10k but what about after that. I know many of you guys accidently go past that. I know of engines that blew because they exceeded 10k with other aftermarket valvetrain, but not mine.
No disrespect to anyone. Ultimately the choice of parts rest upon the engine builder and his customer and not the manufacture/distributer.
I know that Arturbo, Earl, and Larry Widmer are extremely knowledgeable about IC engines and such and I respect their position on spring pressure.
However, I am one of the few if only that like alot of spring pressure (notably seat pressure) and always have. The Rocket springs and retainers have zero reported failures for over the 1.5 years with various camshafts from stock, Skunk, Toda, etc. I haven't seen anyone complain yet to me or hear on H-T.
The extra seat pressure keeps things happy and provides a very good cushion for driver error. I have a friend/customer that takes his B16 to 10-11k every drive for over a year now and the head is still in one peice.
If you have the following things on your engine/car you need more spring pressure.
1. More rpm
2. More cam (specifically ramp) lift
3. Lightened Flywheel and pullyes
4. Boost
5. Higher final drive
6. More HP per cylinder (kinda goes under boost)
7. Compression braking
Most aftermarket springs are good to 10k but what about after that. I know many of you guys accidently go past that. I know of engines that blew because they exceeded 10k with other aftermarket valvetrain, but not mine.
No disrespect to anyone. Ultimately the choice of parts rest upon the engine builder and his customer and not the manufacture/distributer.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,120
Likes: 3
From: Irvine, CA, usa
Re: EF-1 (Rocket)
Hi Robert. You should be in politics with that great post..haha I wish everyone was like you.
Do you think the extra seat pressure puts more wear on the stock valve train components or are they strong enough to take the extra pressure?
Do you think the extra seat pressure puts more wear on the stock valve train components or are they strong enough to take the extra pressure?
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,905
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From: Lansdale, PA
Re: EF-1 (Rocket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Spring Pressure - Please Read
I know that Arturbo, Earl, and Larry Widmer are extremely knowledgeable about IC engines and such and I respect their position on spring pressure.
However, I am one of the few if only that like alot of spring pressure (notably seat pressure) and always have. The Rocket springs and retainers have zero reported failures for over the 1.5 years with various camshafts from stock, Skunk, Toda, etc. I haven't seen anyone complain yet to me or hear on H-T.
The extra seat pressure keeps things happy and provides a very good cushion for driver error. I have a friend/customer that takes his B16 to 10-11k every drive for over a year now and the head is still in one peice.
If you have the following things on your engine/car you need more spring pressure.
1. More rpm
2. More cam (specifically ramp) lift
3. Lightened Flywheel and pullyes
4. Boost
5. Higher final drive
6. More HP per cylinder (kinda goes under boost)
7. Compression braking
Most aftermarket springs are good to 10k but what about after that. I know many of you guys accidently go past that. I know of engines that blew because they exceeded 10k with other aftermarket valvetrain, but not mine.
No disrespect to anyone. Ultimately the choice of parts rest upon the engine builder and his customer and not the manufacture/distributer.</TD></TR></TABLE>
when can i pick up a set ??? springs,retainers,valves.. do you carry valve guides?
I know that Arturbo, Earl, and Larry Widmer are extremely knowledgeable about IC engines and such and I respect their position on spring pressure.
However, I am one of the few if only that like alot of spring pressure (notably seat pressure) and always have. The Rocket springs and retainers have zero reported failures for over the 1.5 years with various camshafts from stock, Skunk, Toda, etc. I haven't seen anyone complain yet to me or hear on H-T.
The extra seat pressure keeps things happy and provides a very good cushion for driver error. I have a friend/customer that takes his B16 to 10-11k every drive for over a year now and the head is still in one peice.
If you have the following things on your engine/car you need more spring pressure.
1. More rpm
2. More cam (specifically ramp) lift
3. Lightened Flywheel and pullyes
4. Boost
5. Higher final drive
6. More HP per cylinder (kinda goes under boost)
7. Compression braking
Most aftermarket springs are good to 10k but what about after that. I know many of you guys accidently go past that. I know of engines that blew because they exceeded 10k with other aftermarket valvetrain, but not mine.
No disrespect to anyone. Ultimately the choice of parts rest upon the engine builder and his customer and not the manufacture/distributer.</TD></TR></TABLE>
when can i pick up a set ??? springs,retainers,valves.. do you carry valve guides?
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,765
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Re: EF-1 (2.2Lcivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2.2Lcivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
when can i pick up a set ??? springs,retainers,valves.. do you carry valve guides?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I reccomend OE valve guides for best service life.
PM me or my dealers.
Thanks.
when can i pick up a set ??? springs,retainers,valves.. do you carry valve guides?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I reccomend OE valve guides for best service life.
PM me or my dealers.
Thanks.
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,765
Likes: 1
Re: EF-1 (earl)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you think the extra seat pressure puts more wear on the stock valve train components or are they strong enough to take the extra pressure? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I haven't seen more wear on any parts (rockers, cam lobes, valve tips, cam caps, timing belts). I actually ask my friends/customers how their valvetrain look and all report that it looks fine.
If you think about it, 50-56lbs on the seat for stock is pretty weak and you are just inviting valve float. When the valve floats everything gets hammered resulting in mushroomed valves, retainers exploding, keepers coming loose and rubbing on the stem, the valve job gets hammered. Also too, just my theory but if there is valve float the cam and rocker can "break" thru the oil film and your worse off than running pressure. I am sure you run 100lbs on your race car for a reason. Coz you have to otherwise your cylinder head won't last.
Adding 50lbs on top of the stock seat pressure hasn't caused any premature wear from what I've seen. If the rocker or valve tip or lobe (made out of high strength steel or iron) can't handle 50lbs more on the seat and 100lbs more over the nose of the cam then the parts are shittty but fortunately they are not (not from Honda anyways).
Just glad to see that everything is cool.
I haven't seen more wear on any parts (rockers, cam lobes, valve tips, cam caps, timing belts). I actually ask my friends/customers how their valvetrain look and all report that it looks fine.
If you think about it, 50-56lbs on the seat for stock is pretty weak and you are just inviting valve float. When the valve floats everything gets hammered resulting in mushroomed valves, retainers exploding, keepers coming loose and rubbing on the stem, the valve job gets hammered. Also too, just my theory but if there is valve float the cam and rocker can "break" thru the oil film and your worse off than running pressure. I am sure you run 100lbs on your race car for a reason. Coz you have to otherwise your cylinder head won't last.
Adding 50lbs on top of the stock seat pressure hasn't caused any premature wear from what I've seen. If the rocker or valve tip or lobe (made out of high strength steel or iron) can't handle 50lbs more on the seat and 100lbs more over the nose of the cam then the parts are shittty but fortunately they are not (not from Honda anyways).
Just glad to see that everything is cool.
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From: so cali
Re: EF-1 (Rocket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I haven't seen more wear on any parts (rockers, cam lobes, valve tips, cam caps, timing belts). I actually ask my friends/customers how their valvetrain look and all report that it looks fine.
If you think about it, 50-56lbs on the seat for stock is pretty weak and you are just inviting valve float. When the valve floats everything gets hammered resulting in mushroomed valves, retainers exploding, keepers coming loose and rubbing on the stem, the valve job gets hammered. Also too, just my theory but if there is valve float the cam and rocker can "break" thru the oil film and your worse off than running pressure. I am sure you run 100lbs on your race car for a reason. Coz you have to otherwise your cylinder head won't last.
Adding 50lbs on top of the stock seat pressure hasn't caused any premature wear from what I've seen. If the rocker or valve tip or lobe (made out of high strength steel or iron) can't handle 50lbs more on the seat and 100lbs more over the nose of the cam then the parts are shittty but fortunately they are not (not from Honda anyways).
Just glad to see that everything is cool.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ive been running Rocket (eF-1) Springs for about 14 months now, over 20k miles and have no reported problems with any valvetrain issues. Last I checked when doing valve adjustment show no signs of any premature wear using OEM cams and titanium retainers. Keep up the great work robert
I haven't seen more wear on any parts (rockers, cam lobes, valve tips, cam caps, timing belts). I actually ask my friends/customers how their valvetrain look and all report that it looks fine.
If you think about it, 50-56lbs on the seat for stock is pretty weak and you are just inviting valve float. When the valve floats everything gets hammered resulting in mushroomed valves, retainers exploding, keepers coming loose and rubbing on the stem, the valve job gets hammered. Also too, just my theory but if there is valve float the cam and rocker can "break" thru the oil film and your worse off than running pressure. I am sure you run 100lbs on your race car for a reason. Coz you have to otherwise your cylinder head won't last.
Adding 50lbs on top of the stock seat pressure hasn't caused any premature wear from what I've seen. If the rocker or valve tip or lobe (made out of high strength steel or iron) can't handle 50lbs more on the seat and 100lbs more over the nose of the cam then the parts are shittty but fortunately they are not (not from Honda anyways).
Just glad to see that everything is cool.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ive been running Rocket (eF-1) Springs for about 14 months now, over 20k miles and have no reported problems with any valvetrain issues. Last I checked when doing valve adjustment show no signs of any premature wear using OEM cams and titanium retainers. Keep up the great work robert
Thread Starter
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From: Maui, Hawaii, United States
Re: EF-1 (sparkz)
Great, just the kind of questions and answers I wanted to hear, but what about those m21 cams, any word? Im planning to start putting things together after christmas
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: PORN CAPITAL OF THE WORLD, Ca, usa
Re: EF-1 (TurboTeG4)
ROCKET, that was great. Why dont you start your own tunning and engine/trans building sessions. Im sure more then alot of people would be interested.!!!!!!!!
ROCKET 
hey any word on the cams.? we got a few backorders over here
ROCKET
hey any word on the cams.? we got a few backorders over here
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,190
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From: Tallahassee, FL, US
Re: EF-1 (Rocket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I maybe solving my cam shortage problem in the coming months. Stay tuned. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
for Rocket. Keep us posted.
</TD></TR></TABLE> for Rocket. Keep us posted.
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thehatchninja
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Jun 10, 2005 11:37 AM
