johncarlos

ok my car is still in the shop and the botom end work is done.they are about to install my turbo kit but right now they are doing the fitments of the pipe's because it's a custom kit.and my installer told me that i should get at least valvesprings and retainers.is he just trying to make a buck?is it a must?what are the benifits of these parts?

PM-Performance

My head is %100 stock and i have had 0 probs with it

johncarlos

how much hp do you have?
my hp goal is max 400.rason i ask is you might be with a stock head and only putting 250whp.

PM-Performance

I will be well in the 500's without much stress

B17aTrbo

Just wondering...what shop?

D3LSLO

Its good to have them so that you can rev higher and take more advantage(know that doesnt sound right but cant think of a better way to say it) of your turbo's power in the higher revs.

B17aTrbo

What about if you don't plan to rev past the factory rev limit? I hadn't planned on doing anything with the valvetrain...8k rpm I think fuel cut is at 8400 which I hit in 1st gear all the time...

PM-Performance

i just never bothered becuase i rev to 9k on my stock head. i will prob do the head next year if i keep the car long enuff, but its not really needed IMO at this point

5thgencivic

OT, but wasn't your car up on ebay itr206?

johncarlos

well my turbo should make full boost at 4000rpms as i was told.am not to crazy about the 9krpms i might keep the stock 8500 rpm limit and just do some gear work.

the shop is in wesminister, MD and it is absolute-pro-formance.


well in that case i wont buy anything for my head right now then maybe nex year.just wondering what motor do you have putting down all this power?

PM-Performance

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 5thgencivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OT, but wasn't your car up on ebay itr206?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea it was up there, but i ended the auction and backed out of the offers, people were wasting my time. If someone shows upwith $25k in hand ready to roll its sold. if not then i keep the car for a little more and race it and see what happens.

BTW John Carlos. that power was just estimated at this point , but it will deff do at least that. i have the parts to make it happen ,just need to get off my *** and get it tuned. i have pushed about 400whp on this head already though. so you are cool.

earl

Springs and retainers is the most important thing you can add to your head when adding a turbo. When you float a valve and hit a piston, you will figure out why. RPM limiters are not the answer.

accordfreak

i guess springs and retainers would be good insurance.. just in case

Short Round

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Springs and retainers is the most important thing you can add to your head when adding a turbo. When you float a valve and hit a piston, you will figure out why. RPM limiters are not the answer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

can you please explain because i've been hearing this too and i don't understand why you'd need upgraded valvesprings if you're not revving past stock settings on a stock head?

at first i thought maybe it had something to do with boost pressure but.... its not like boost pressure causes the cams to all of a sudden have another couple mm of lift or something ?

5thgencivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Short Round &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

can you please explain because i've been hearing this too and i don't understand why you'd need upgraded valvesprings if you're not revving past stock settings on a stock head? </TD></TR></TABLE>

insurance

Short Round

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 5thgencivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

insurance</TD></TR></TABLE>

OK but i still fail to see the necessity of it if ur head is stock...

Mochanic

because when your tires go up in smoke and you can shift it fast enough or miss a gear it can result in a catastrophe!!! Junk cylinders, junk head, junk, pistons, junk turbo, etc.

Very good insurance... already seen it a couple times.

calib17a

That's an upgrade I need to do to if you want to boost more than 10 psi. From what I was explained the reason why, is that if the stock springs will compress easier, because of the raised boost pressures especially if they are worn due to excess milage. If they can't hold the boost pressures they'll cause your valves to "float". Which in turn will cause the valves to possibly make contact with the top of your piston. Not a good thing to happen. A dual spring setup for boost would be the best option. Can valve float be caused by boost spikes and or staying in boost for longer durations? I'd hate to think about what can happen if one of your stock springs snapped.

Mochanic

that makes no sense at all!
boost has nothing to do with it really, if anything more boost would try and keep the valve closed, not try and open it. To put it simpe, the spring is there to simply close the valve and make it follow the lobe of the cam then keep it shut. Over revving will cause valve float which in turn causes broke or bent valves if your lucky!
There is what is called a mechanical over rev which has nothing to do with rev limiters or accelerating. Its when you miss a gear and/or go into to low of a gear. This is the number one reason of valve float. I dont care how fast you think you are, your not fast enough to catch it before damage occurs!

Another thing you should do with boost is install Stainless valves since they can handle the higher temperatures better than stock valves.
At the very minimum, at least install the inner springs! Then save up your money and buy a complete valve train ASAP.

calib17a

Now that I think and visualize how it's all set up, I believe I was misinformed by what valve float is. Your right it doesn't add up.

Short Round

I understand that mis shifting and over revving is always a possibility, but everyone was making it out like valvesprings are a must as if the car wont hold boost without valvesprings.... yeah for insurance, but as a part of a turbo setup on a stock head, i still fail to see the necessity of it... just don't mis-shift

dasher

I agree it's not a necessity.... but who here hasn't mis-shifted before? And if you haven't then you aren't having enough fun.

Short Round

or some of us can actually drive

genop

Ok let me see if I am understanding this correctly. People are talking about valves not be able to handle the boost and all this stuff but what does that have to do with it at all?? If you are making 180hp@8000rpm or 500hp@8000rmps it is still 8000 rpms and the valves shouldnt know the difference......am I right. I do understand getting them for insurance, but that is different than getting them because of having boost.

Short Round

that's what im sayin