cvelazquez

i read alot of inconlusive threads about this sleeves but theres actually any set up with this that work??

i want to push over 600whp+ i was planing to hit 500 with stock sleeves.......

im not messing around i actually going to start building soon ...



thanks ahead!

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The inconclusive threads you're reading are more than likely based upon the installation method that the machine shop uses for Darton sleeves and the possibility that they may not be using the correct method.

Methodology for "wet" and "Dry" sleeves are different, and if not installed properly can cause some problems. There are plenty of good machine shops that have the experience to install them, but there are also some that don't and are willing to take the chance.

Want to eliminate that possibility of issues? Either;

1) Make some calls and find some reputable companies that have experience in installing "wet sleeves" (which is used best for higher power turbocharger applications,

2)Use a different company with better QA and go to Golden Eagle or AEBS. . Yes, you have to ship it, or send it to a company that has a contract with do that for you, but there's a one-stop shop that its all done in..

Or, lastly, find something in-between like the CSS CNC Werx double-guard method if staying under 82mm, and give them a whirl...

tepid1

Nothing better than Darton mids in my opinion.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

All I use for my blocks is Darton mids. they are they original ductile iron sleeve company

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Gents. Its not the sleeves that is issue. Its who installs them. you both seem to have the resources to be able to trust who is installing these MID sleeves. Without that, no matter what the company is, the sleeve is only as good as the machinist and methodology that put them in there, ya dig?

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

It's all about the installation. If not installed properly any sleeve will fail. Dartons are great sleeves.

tepid1

Completely agree with the mad scientist. I also like the fact that once the block is machined and sleeve replacement is very easy. The three o-rings at the bottom provide excellent seal compared to "glue" that other processes use.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

That's what I like too.. when properly installed it's the head that retains and seals the sleeves in the block...

why do you think top fuel dragsters can have each sleeve replaced in minutes? triple o rings at the bottom and the cylinder heads secure the sleeves in the block.

even the performance engines in Ferrari and Lamborghini are the same way, the sleeves can be removed/replaced with a good whack from a slide hammer.

I've never understood why most companies machine the blocks and sleeves for an interference fit then press and epoxy the sleeves in the block.

cvelazquez

cant agree with you more but my big problem is that the machinist in my country have 0 (cero) experience installing darton mid sleeves, i know they have install plenty of wet sleeve (no necessarily darton) but those are the sleeve that i belive they can handle better, unfortunetly theres no actually set up with this sleeve thats why i have the big doubt also aparently is very dificult to find a used block with mid dartons sleeve cant afford a new one right now and shipping my to the US is just to expensive....

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Then either wait and save, find someone willing to ship you a used one from the U.S., or, not do it.

But if they don't know what they're doing, you're just giving both money and materials away.

F22Master

Maybe look into a dart block?

dcmatt

iTrader: (7)

If he cant afford shiiping to get a block sleeved hows he gonna afford a dart block?

OP youd be better off finding a used one or someone parting out there build. People are willing to ship out of country as long as you pay for the shipping. You would only have to pay shipping one way and may find a better deal that way.

dcmatt

iTrader: (7)

Another optiin also is CSS from cncwerx. People have made over 800 on those blocks. Cheaper then sleeves so that would help you out as far as paying for shipping.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

I shipped my GSR block to GE, had them sleeve and oring the block, bead blast the block and shipping costs from Phoenix to GE and back cost $1,450.

the round trip shipping was like $150 for me but I guess it depends on how far you need to ship it.

dcmatt

iTrader: (7)

Hes out of the country

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yea the only way for him to ship a block to the US would be via ship or air freight. ships are dreadfully slow, plus the wholw customs thing and air freight is very very expensive.

also dart doesn't make the blocks anymore IIRC so finding one is hard plus they need lots of prep work before they can be used... you have to clean the block, chase threads and deburr sharp edges. almost everyone I know with a dart block or head had a hell of a time getting all of the metal shavings out of the passages and such.

OP, what country are you in? it might be easier to find a company in another country that's closer to you to have the sleeving done.

cvelazquez

Im in the Dominican Republic, theres a company winchester autoworks the said they can provide the block with LA sleeves open deck for 1500 us, thats not to bad, they also say that the block can handle up to 900 whp, thats my best option i guess.....im thinking to built my engine with stock sleeve and start saving to order that one.....

cvelazquez

i also going to contact CNC Werx thanks!!

Steve D

You are absolutely correct about the installation being the issue. I am a co patent holder of Darton MID sleeves for those who don't know who I am. I do all the R&D for Darton for new sleeve applications and am Darton's installation center. I sponsor a few racers too.

That said, I wrote the installation guides on Darton's site including the Honda install guide.

Several issues that I have seen. Some think they know better than I on how the machine work and installation should be accomplished. Others couldn't hold the required tolerances if their lives depended on it. When the installation fails, it is always the fault of the sleeves, not the installer.

Darton has the strongest ductile iron. Each sleeve starts out individually spun cast to remove voids and slag inclusions. The sleeves are machined from these raw blanks, not from a tube or pipe. This is a reason why Darton has 100% of the NHRA Top Fuel and Funny Car sleeve business.

Steve

Almtrhb

iTrader: (3)

Darton sleeves in my motor as well... Very good sleeve material, Steve know's what he's doin. I had a motor fail and damage only 1 cylinder. I hit up John at Darton he sent out a replacement, orings, and Loctite... Removed the old sleeve pressed the new one in. Let it sit over night with a torque plate on it. Decked the motor again and was back in action... Any other sleeve that motor would have been done.

Or used for a all motor car..

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

CNC werx is useless for the kind of power you want... and knowing how much you DR guys love ridiculous drag cars I would suggest proper sleeves.

and the 1500 dollar quote for the block definitely doesn't include shipping. if that block has to leave the country you could easy pay over 1,000USD for shipping both ways.

Dark_Teg

This statement is based upon what exactly. It damn sure isn't facts.

MRGRIM

iTrader: (1)

How would Benson sleeved block compare in this to the Darton
was thinking of getting them for a future build .. opinions ??

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

CNC werx is basically a glorified block guard. granted it's properly installed but still. You're forced to go up to the next half larger bore size and thus bigger pistons (which is blah if you already have a certain size forged piston, are still using stock sleeves so you can't go big big bore

Benson sleeves are great, I would use only Benson or Darton if it were me.

Dark_Teg

Comparing the CSS system which is machined and press fit to a block guard is like comparing a condom to pulling out.