Andre

I'm looking to get a Dart tall deck block and i have a few questions:

1) I have already bought a 89mm (3.504") Eagle crank and now i'm trying to find out which rods i need (Should have done this before buying the crank ). Stock B20 has a 211.5mm deck height and the tall deck 226mm, that's a 14.5mm difference. Stock B20 rods are 137mm (5.394") long, 137+14.5=151.5mm=5.965", so i need the 5.967" long rods from Eagle?

2) Could i bore the 81mm block to 84mm or would it be better to get the 84.5mm block?

3) Which head studs (ARP) do i need with a PR3 head? Honda B20B w/ B16A Head?

4) Would you still get a block girdle, i've read that it's not neccessary with the Dart main caps?

5) Where would you set the rev limit with this block (1.70 r/s ratio???) and a GT35R? Currently i have a B18C5 and i could just use the head with a 8400 rev limit. Do you think it's worth the extra money to get a p&p head with upgraded valvetrain?

Thanks


PS.: If you're interested, this is my whole setup: http://andre.honda-tech.de/turbosetup.txt

Andre

Motorhead_AZ

I have a tall deck Dart block too.

You can either use Eagle 5.967" rods or Oliver 5.975" rods. Either one would work fine. It doesn't matter if you get big bore or small bore, all of them can be opened up to 86 mm. GSR head studs will work with the setup. I wouldn't bother with a block girdle; those mains are very very hefty, nothing comparable to OEM Honda mains. I would definately upgrade the valve train and do some head work.

Also, I just want to tell you that you can no longer use an OEM Honda timing belt due to the extended deck height. Payn Technologies sells timing belts for Dart tall deck blocks; you should order one from http://www.payntechnologies.com.

Good luck with the project,

Soroush

Ray-mond

Sounds like a fun project but the dart blocks are over rated go with a stock b18 and get it sleeved you can do 600+ with a B18 sleeved and bore it out to 84mm if you want a b20 then a GSR head works great with a b20 the b16 and the GSR heads CFM's are pretty much the same the good thing about the GSR head is velocity, velocity,velocity and that's what you want with a high reeving motor and a 89mm crank is a little big but you'll get alot of torqur out of your motor but your wont last that long because how long the rod has to travel

Andre

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1Guamracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like a fun project but the dart blocks are over rated go with a stock b18 and get it sleeved you can do 600+ with a B18 sleeved and bore it out to 84mm </TD></TR></TABLE>

If i get a Dart block i can sell my B18C5 short block for about $1,000. So there is only a $800 difference to the already sleeved Dart block. Getting the B18 sleeved would cost an other $600, so there is no difference.

I will have to buy rods and pistons, no matter if i use the B18 or Dart block.

Plus i have already bought the 89mm Eagle crank. With the tall deck block it would still give me a 1.70 r/s ratio so there is not as much sideload as with the B18.

The engine is for a street car so i have no problem to trade in peak power for low end torque.

Maybe the GT30R would be the better buy? I have already bought everything except the turbo so the setup is pretty firm.

Andre

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Motorhead_AZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can either use Eagle 5.967" rods or Oliver 5.975" rods.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can i use any 84mm or 84.5mm piston for a regular B16/B18/B20?
I know the B16/B18 and B20 pistons are different so which one do i need with the Eagle or Oliver rods?

TrueNorthStar

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andre &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If i get a Dart block i can sell my B18C5 short block for about $1,000. So there is only a $800 difference to the already sleeved Dart block. Getting the B18 sleeved would cost an other $600, so there is no difference.

I will have to buy rods and pistons, no matter if i use the B18 or Dart block.

Plus i have already bought the 89mm Eagle crank. With the tall deck block it would still give me a 1.70 r/s ratio so there is not as much sideload as with the B18.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are missing a few things there for the dart block...

Oil pump
Main cover (tranny side)
Oil Pickup
Oil pan
Oil squirters or plugs
water pump
Water tube (the one that runs on the back side of the block)
Thermostat and housing
Thermo Switch
knock sensor
oil pressure switch
Timing belt tensioner (sp?)
Timing belt covers
Timing belt gear (crank side) and the plates that go on either side
OBD2? Crank sensor


I'm sure I missed a few things, but yeah, not so cheap.

Andre

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TrueNorthStar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Oil pump New OEM
Main cover (tranny side)
Oil Pickup Moroso
Oil pan Moroso
Oil squirters or plugs Not required with forged pistons
water pump Golden Eagle or new OEM
Water tube (the one that runs on the back side of the block)
Thermostat and housing
Thermo Switch
knock sensor
oil pressure switch
Timing belt tensioner (sp?)
Timing belt covers
Timing belt gear (crank side) and the plates that go on either side
OBD2? Crank sensor


I'm sure I missed a few things, but yeah, not so cheap.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're right there are some parts i will have to buy, but i still think the Dart is the better buy. A water tube and belt cover is not really expensive.

HYBRID_H@TCH

to dart blocks..Iam building mine this coming up week!! also if you need a water bar with T stat housing or other oem parts let me know..I have alot of stuff!!

TrueNorthStar

Heh, my Dart tall deck is still sitting on my dresser. I haven't even put a dime into it yet.... Bad last 6 months of the year. I should be able to get it done by april tho. At least I hope so.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 99Hybrid_Hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> to dart blocks..Iam building mine this coming up week!! also if you need a water bar with T stat housing or other oem parts let me know..I have alot of stuff!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Keep us updated with results/problems/sucsess It seems as there are more and more people going with the dart lately.

HYBRID_H@TCH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TrueNorthStar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Keep us updated with results/problems/sucsess It seems as there are more and more people going with the dart lately.</TD></TR></TABLE>


will do..it will get dynoed on the 29th..600+ whp or I blow the ****** up..LOL

mike1114

iTrader: (1)

also just a fyi.....DART blocks are not finished blocks, there are a lot of burrs and other chunks of metal that need cleaned up on the block before you use it.

So factor in some machine work as well.....that gonna be like $400 bucks.

MikeMAN

hey guys, i have been reading about the dart blocks...and with something like this setup would you have to add a crank dampner into the mix as well or is that for basically ANY high rpm setup?

mike

Turbocivic94

you might wanna as TBone about his experinces about dart block.

b16sedan

How about, if you have a teg the dart tall deck block is going to hit your hood without some mods.

Ask me how I know this

Andre

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about, if you have a teg the dart tall deck block is going to hit your hood without some mods.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have already installed a Moroso valve cover which is lower than the stock valve cover.

Before: (Notice the hose damage at the strut bar)



After:

chisp3

Call Dyno-Flo performance Auto Works (702-567-3036) they can help you.

Drag_On

That valve cover is hot !!

mrspeaker

DAmn look at those welds..

Andre

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mrspeaker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DAmn look at those welds.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Look at those welds:



to Neukin.

But back to topic.

grndcont

thief!!!

Carlito Brigante

WTF that's my desk!

Ri5e

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mrspeaker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DAmn look at those welds.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

ohboy95c

Would you still get a block girdle, i've read that it's not neccessary with the Dart main caps?

I built a Dart block and the mains ar super beefy. They also were not compatible with the block girdle, they dont have holes for the girdle at all.

Plus you will encounter some machining imperfections but 400 beans to get it cleaned come on. Get yourself a blow gun, a wire brush and, a dremil tool and bam.

TrueNorthStar

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboSmart &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That looks like a knock off of my kit:



That is going on my Dart tall deck