Back again with more questions for my turbo build. I have CTR cams I plan on installing in a stock B16 head. I was curious while I'm in there what else I should have replaced/serviced.

So far I plan on doing:
- Cam install
- Valve Seals
- Cam Seals

Should I replace the valve guides as well? Is it worth it to just bite the bullet and do dual valve springs/ti retainers while I'm at it? I have so much going into the build I'd rather not cheap on on head upgrades that will help keep things reliable.

I have a lot of reading to do of the Helm's Manual but figured I'd ask for input from others who have done the same.

Thanks!

 

If the guides are original OEM then yes you probably should have them replaced as they will be worn from high miles. New guides will require a valve job too. This is critical to the health of your head in terms of valve stress and oil consumption.

You don't have to upgrade the springs and valves but now would be the best time for it.

 

Thanks for the reply!

The car is high mileage, approx 135k. I'm already rebuilding the block but was hoping I wouldn't have to dump another grand into the head. Hmm.

Any reason the valves need to go too? Just wear? I don't think there is any damage but I'll be able to check things out more when I pull the head.

Edit: Looks like a full Supertech head package is around $700. Not quite as much as I was thinking at least.

 

Its not the cost of materials, its making sure that the machine shop can install them properly, and that means labor hours. You still will be putting about $1K into the head with labor costs, easily.

 

How complicated is the install?

I'm fairly confident I could do the springs and retainers myself. I have the OEM Honda Helm's manual which is what I've used for all other updates/maintenance. I'd need to pick up a few tools but I have no problem with that. I'm interested in learning about more complicated repairs FWIW.

Edit: I have not however done any research yet on doing a full valve replacement. Links appreciated if someone knows a good guide to follow.

 

He meant the labor for the guides and VJ. The assembly is easy and yes you could do it yourself but the shop would probably do it for free or very cheap bc its so easy.

 

-Ctr cams
-forced induction application

On old, stock B16a valve springs? This is a big no no. If anything, I would consider the spring swap the major safety and longevity investment here.

 

I gotcha, just took a look at the manual. Looks like valve guide replacement is a mess to do without a press and requires heating the head. I'll pass on that job…

Additionally, reconditioning the valve seats looks like a job for someone else as well.

Looks like I should just remove the springs, retainers, seals, and valves and check the stem-to-guide clearance to see if I need new guides. Then send it off to a machine shop to handle the guides and reconditioning the seats.

Hopefully at least doing the above will minimize shop labor costs...

 

Minimize labor costs. Not really. Its best to give them the head for stem-to-guide clearance and the seats. If they're going do to any work at all, they'll want to QA the entire process (reputable machine shops do, anyway), so, a little time might be saved, but quality work is what you want here.

 

I take it if the guides are within spec I can't just do valves without a refresh on the seats...

 

Which the machine shop would do. correct.

 

Awesome, thanks! I had a buddy who had a burnt valve back in the day. We popped the head and took it to a machine shop for the work.

I'll try and find out from him who did the work. Seemed quality and lasted for years until he sold the car.

If anyone is from PA (near Pittsburgh preferably) I'm open to recommendations as far as machine shops as well!

 

also remember the valves have to be lapped after the valve job or they won't seat and seal correctly.

what's your setup/power goal? that really determines what needs to be done.

the OEM b16 springs work fine with itr/ctr cams, if you plan on running higher rpms or lots of boost then you need springs and retainers

for a street car don't bother with ti retainers, the cost and service limit of the material aren't a great choice for street duty.

you can get a set of tool steel retainers that are only a few grams heavier than ti but have an indefinite service life plus they can be purchased for around 50 bucks new, you can also get a set of supertech dual springs for 135 new as well

 

I'm not sure I understand what "lapped" means. Can you explain?


Here are the parts I've acquired for the build:

b16a2 - getting rebuild (compression ring toast on cylinder 2)
Inline pro SS T3 log manifold
Inline pro SS 2.5" downpipe
Tial 38mm Wastegate
CTR Cams
AEBS Cam Gears
AEBS "Whirlwind" Intake manifold
AEM Fuel rail
AEM Fuel filter
Stainless fuel lines
RC 750cc injectors w/plug & play clips
GT2871R T3/.64 Turbo
Fast Turbo Oil line kit
Greddy Type-S BOV
Inline Pro 675HP Intercooler
Comp Stage 4 6 puck sprung clutch
Comp 12lb chromoly flywheel
Greddy Emanage Ultimate (tune w/wastegate spring removed to pass emissions without pulling injectors, cams, etc. Will be using Chrome/Hondata for the actual boost tune)
Koni Yellow/Ground Control setup… 350/400 spring rates
ASR Subframe Brance
S&T Front & Rear Sway bars
Function 7 LCAs
Moroso Oil Pan (just picked up for $116 today!)

Still to get:
ARP Head Studs
CP Pistons
Rods (Eagle, Crower?, etc.)
B&R Front Port Coolant Kit
Inline Pro Stainless 2.5" Charge Pipe Kit
Upgraded Radiator tapped for coolant kit
3" Exhaust
2.5" -> 3" Cat (recommendations? any chance of a direct fit bolt on?)
Catch Can Setup (looking at ASP Oddesy Battery & Catch Can solution)

Possibly more I'm forgetting..

I'm hoping to make 350-400 whp out of this setup eventually… I know I probably need a 3" DP to do so.

Still debating on whether I should sleeve the block as well. I'm going to have so much into this already what's another $1100 bucks!?!

 

If u got the money for it I would go ahead n sleeve it n get some valvetrain. Then later on if u decide u need more power all u gotta do is change out ur turbo setup n injectors.

 

If the machine shop can do the seats even on the stock valves, no need to lap them. that's just more work for you.

As for Ti retainers, I've found that every one of those that wore prematurely was due to installation and not much else. If the issue occurs with the TI, chances are it will also occur on the steel one too. I've had Ti Retainers last over 80K of HARD use, and only switched due to change of purpose of the car. If cost is the issue, then sure, get the steel, but at least get the dual valvesprings for the ITR/CTR camshafts, and do this only once.

 

For the price I'd rather just do proper dual valvesprings, etc. I've been looking into a SuperTech setup.

Can you elaborate on the installation issues that caused problems? Reading through the helms manual it seems pretty straightforward as long as you have a proper valve spring compressor and torque things down properly.

Either way I'd rather know ahead of time what NOT to do

 

retainer wasn't centered, wrong keeper size, lost keepers, etc. Just the little things.

The valvesprings that you choose need to be planned ahead for the camshafts you plan to run. Getting supertech is fine, but they have different seat pressures for different range of camshaft requirements. If you're staying with a CTR camshaft and don't ever plan on changing them, then the SPR-H1002D would work. BUT, if you plan on using a camshaft specifically made to run a turbocharger, you may have to go for the SPR-H100DR set instead because of the higher seat pressures needed.

If it were me, I'd rather get the SPR-H100DR version from the start in case your goals , turbocharger use and / or camshaft changes. Then you're not doing this twice.

here's the link to the types. Please remember, when going through a dealer or retailer, the default is for NA people, so if it doesn't specify in the advertisement, assume that they will send you the SPR-H1002D version. Contact them directly to make sure you get the SPR-H100DR if you think about changing camshafts later. Stick with OEM Keepers.

http://www.supertechperformance.com/...&t=Dual+Spring