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Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by JRCivic1
Ummm... that is a thread-jack there Chance EG !!! LOL
I think the proper responses would certainly be solutions along the same vein as what is being used here in this thread...
For those wanting to go the supercharged route and keep A/C and P/S, the only solution TODAY is to find a used JRSC kit and install it OR purchase a ProCharger kit. Sometime in the near future, Motorvations Motorsports will complete the development of a kit using a Rotrex supercharger that will allow the user to keep A/C and P/S if they so choose... making a very viable third alternative solution that is still within the supercharger vein. Hell, they probably would be marketing it right now had they not been forced to pause the development, complete client builds, construct a brand new facility and move their business from their current location to the new one.
Once available... this generalized idea that "if you want big power and keep your accessories, you gotta go turbo" will no longer be accurate. There WILL be a choice. At that point, one simply has to decide which path is best for them.
The build that I have outlined in this thread is really focused on the potential of a supercharged "B" series engine and the desire to do something DIFFERENT. I do have daily driven vehicles in my stable that have A/C and P/S... and I can assure you that when these MVM kits are available, they WILL be my choice over a turbo kit to "up the power".
That is good news! I spoke to Jim awhile back and he was debating whether or not he should develop supercharger kits that retained A/C and P/S on B-Series. Glad they are moving forward with it as I will definitely be in the market.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by JRCivic1
... they will be for the medium sized supercharger and not the big kit like I have.
This is a bit of sad news for me. It will probably be another year before I can even look into buying a kit but I was hoping for a kit with the C38-81.
Also, if you are still taking request for videos, a simple crank up and walk around type of video would be a nice start. Or a drive by video. Nothing crazy. Just enough to hear that s/c through the exhaust.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Sorry chill85... as I understand it, there isn't enough room for the large frame supercharger itself where it will go using this kit. Also, the big power kit is going to REQUIRE a sleeved block to survive long term... which will limit sales of said kit because of the overall upgrade cost in total.
As for the videos... I am moving in the right direction. I "believe" the GoPro is now functioning, however, I must admit I have no understanding yet how to get digital footage from the camera to the desktop. Be patient... I will get it worked out.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Where could one purchase this now that ERL has closed up shop? Back to custom? This a very interesting thread as I am considering a 550-600hp turbo build and have never had a supercharged car.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
I have kicked around in my mind some ideas to relocate the air compressor so I could run the c38 on my car. Down the road I might take a hard look at this. I know there's a kit to use an MR2 electric power steering pump so retaining power steering shouldn't be a difficult issue.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by sikefcrx89
Where could one purchase this now that ERL has closed up shop? Back to custom? This a very interesting thread as I am considering a 550-600hp turbo build and have never had a supercharged car.
I know the shop that bought all of the remaining sleeved blocks from ERL before they closed up... and he has "B" and "K" series Superdeck blocks in stock. Not many, so you will have to hurry. PM me for the contact info.
Originally Posted by scottcraft
I have kicked around in my mind some ideas to relocate the air compressor so I could run the c38 on my car. Down the road I might take a hard look at this. I know there's a kit to use an MR2 electric power steering pump so retaining power steering shouldn't be a difficult issue.
I am going to use the MR2 Spider P/S pump on my EM1 "K" series swap... waiting for the pump to arrive from Arkansas now as a matter of fact. I am still not sure what you would do about moving the A/C compressor, but I would love to discuss it with you. Lunch ?!?
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by JRCivic1
I know the shop that bought all of the remaining sleeved blocks from ERL before they closed up... and he has "B" and "K" series Superdeck blocks in stock. Not many, so you will have to hurry. PM me for the contact info.
Was meaning the Crank pulleys. If I decide to do a similar setup.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by sikefcrx89
Was meaning the Crank pulleys. If I decide to do a similar setup.
Oh sorry... maybe I misunderstood. The custom big boost crank pulleys are manufactured by Motorvations Motorsports. They have them in stock. This pulley (and 6-rib drive belt) is REQUIRED to drive the larger 38 series Rotrex superchargers, however, they are increasingly being utilized by road and endurance racers for increased belt life and reducing belt slip.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by Pepe14
Still no vids of this mystery build? What mystery ???This build is well documented in photos and running on the dyno (The dyno pull IS a video posted in the thread if you bothered to look).
You guys are so gulliable. It's GULLIBLE by the way. 10k dollar rods and cant afford a go pro or smart phone? Stop I am not sure if I am supposed to feel offended or sorry for you here... but know that there is help available so that you can get over this level of envy, jealousy and anger.
So, take it easy there Pepe. I have a GoPro... just haven't figured out how to use it yet. It isn't a priority in my world at this time. But is that really the litmus test for proof of the project ??? If so... WOW. Remember I am an OLD guy and technology is a bit intimidating to me. There are actually a couple of recordings on the camera, I have to figure out how to get them on the desktop and pieced together so that they are worth watching... since this is all that seems to be important to the members here. I wish making videos was the only thing I had to do...
Finally, if you have constructive suggestions/comments that pertain to this build and can be useful or helpful to myself and/or others who view this thread, please post them. Otherwise, please go troll elsewhere.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by JRCivic1
Oh sorry... maybe I misunderstood. The custom big boost crank pulleys are manufactured by Motorvations Motorsports. They have them in stock. This pulley (and 6-rib drive belt) is REQUIRED to drive the larger 38 series Rotrex superchargers, however, they are increasingly being utilized by road and endurance racers for increased belt life and reducing belt slip.
Thanks for this.. I didnt see it mentioned,maybe I missed it. What is the entire exhaust setup on this car? I notice the hytech,but which version,Piping size,Cat/No cat etc? Thanks again. Such a great build
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
The header is a one-off piece... and not actually designed for this engine/supercharger combination. I am not sure what the primary pipe diameter and the first step diameter is, but the collector is a 2.5" diameter outlet. There is no cat, but in place of where the original cat would be, I have a 2.5" -> 3" cone to a 3" Magnaflow IN/OUT muffler, connecting to a 3" Thermal stainless cat-back.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by JRCivic1
The header is a one-off piece... and not actually designed for this engine/supercharger combination. I am not sure what the primary pipe diameter and the first step diameter is, but the collector is a 2.5" diameter outlet. There is no cat, but in place of where the original cat would be, I have a 2.5" -> 3" cone to a 3" Magnaflow IN/OUT muffler, connecting to a 3" Thermal stainless cat-back.
I was thinking it had to be 3" at your power level,but wanted to ask.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by sikefcrx89
I was thinking it had to be 3" at your power level,but wanted to ask.
I had the same concerns, but since it made such good power, I was hesitant to spend another $1600 on a SECOND custom header with larger primaries, larger anti-reversion steps, and a 3" diameter collector just to test the idea that it MIGHT make more power. The new blower should make another 125-150 wheel HP, and if it doesn't, I will likely have to consider the possibility that the header is a liability and make a change.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
What is your Fuel of choice? I noticed in the Kraftwerks thread you used VP MS109. Is that what you use all the time at your 11.5:1 compression or do you swap between 93/E85 etc?
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by sikefcrx89
What is your Fuel of choice? I noticed in the Kraftwerks thread you used VP MS109. Is that what you use all the time at your 11.5:1 compression or do you swap between 93/E85 etc?
The fuel of choice is a steady diet of VP MS109. I suppose I could tune it on pump gas, but since I have sooooo much money tied up in the powertrain... it simply isn't worth the risk just to save a few bucks on fuel. I reach nearly 23psi at redline, so the tuning window would get super narrow and I don't want to walk that tightrope. The car isn't driven much, so even at $17 per gallon for MS109, I have only spent about $300 in fuel since the car first hit the street.
I know that E85 is all the rage right now, but I am NOT a fan. It is way too much trouble to drain the tank every time I want to shelf the car... I simply cannot drive it every day. This power level on ultra-sticky tires (Toyo R888's) in the rain is truly terrifying !!! The fuel system would have to get exponentially larger... especially when I get my new C38R and up the power another 125 or so ponies... all to get 35% less fuel economy. Accessibility in my area is really poor. Ethanol quality varies widely where you get it and the time of year, so the tune would get more intricate since I would have to run an analyzer. E85 in it's best form has a maximum octane rating of about 104.
So, other than price... I haven't seen any benefit to running E85.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Recently I have got access to E85 semi local which is why I was asking. My power goals are not where you are currently setting as I was thinking 400 maybe 430hp,but in order to not be a slug out of boost I wanted to stick around the 10-10.5 range while being able to utilize pump 93 or E85. While this car like yours will only see duty in nice weather and summers. I already have to replace the entire fuel system anyway (Rusty lines) and will be adding in a new gas tank just for fun,so I have the option to put a drain bung in the new tank.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
TEASER ALERT !!!
Contrary to my better judgement, the quest for more power is simply too strong for me to deny. I jumped on the band-wagon early last year and got in on the "pre-order" list for a proposed big power output Rotrex Supercharger. The specifications were either general or non-existent... but I felt in my heart that since the first product was so good, things would only get better with the new supercharger. All they really "guaranteed" at the time was a 27% increase in airflow (CFM) and that the overall dimensions of the supercharger housing would be similar to that of the current C38-91. Well, they did better than promised on the airflow... but the dimensions are a bit different. So, this means that I cannot install it as of yet since the snout is taller and thus, requires a new design for the supercharger pulley itself. So, once I get that done, I will need to get a larger diameter inlet coupler and then everything else should be a "bolt on" affair. Here are a couple of pictures so you can see the differences. Obviously, the inlet diameter is larger and the impeller/compressor wheel is larger as well, but also notice the length of the snout in the second pic.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by scottcraft
The crank pulley will remain the same, just the pulley on the rotrex will be changed?
This is going to be interesting!
The Rotrex pulley has to be changed... if I simply bolted my pulley over onto the new supercharger, it would be out of alignment by about a mile !!! LOL
The crank pulley will remain the same... I don't think Motorvations wants to develop and prototype a larger diameter crank pulley. This market is going to be VERY small. The drive rates are different between the new C38R and the previous C38-91/92 units: 6:1 for the 38R and 7.5:1 for the C38-91 that I have now. This means that the supercharger pulley will have to be SMALLER in diameter than what I have now in order for the new 38R to reach the same 90,000 RPM redline at the same current Engine Redline of 9300 RPM. We are preparing to create a 7-rib belt instead of the current 6-rib belt drive combination... and although the new supercharger pulley will be able to accommodate a 10-rib belt, there simply isn't enough room on the current drive assembly to use anything near that large. We may be able to get an 8-rib belt to fit... but this would require a new crank pulley.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by JRCivic1
The Rotrex pulley has to be changed... if I simply bolted my pulley over onto the new supercharger, it would be out of alignment by about a mile !!! LOL
The crank pulley will remain the same... I don't think Motorvations wants to develop and prototype a larger diameter crank pulley. This market is going to be VERY small. The drive rates are different between the new C38R and the previous C38-91/92 units: 6:1 for the 38R and 7.5:1 for the C38-91 that I have now. This means that the supercharger pulley will have to be SMALLER in diameter than what I have now in order for the new 38R to reach the same 90,000 RPM redline at the same current Engine Redline of 9300 RPM. We are preparing to create a 7-rib belt instead of the current 6-rib belt drive combination... and although the new supercharger pulley will be able to accommodate a 10-rib belt, there simply isn't enough room on the current drive assembly to use anything near that large. We may be able to get an 8-rib belt to fit... but this would require a new crank pulley.
I can't wait to see how it turns out. Your car is going to be a monster.
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
The "Math" suggests between 650 and 675 wheel HP. Sheeesh. I can't wait either. I think you are going to have to come over and go for a ride... and make a VIDEO so it can be posted here !!! LOL
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
Originally Posted by JRCivic1
The "Math" suggests between 650 and 675 wheel HP. Sheeesh. I can't wait either. I think you are going to have to come over and go for a ride... and make a VIDEO so it can be posted here !!! LOL
I agree. I can see my car ending up at motorvations in the future so while I'm there...
02-12-2018, 08:36 AM
Re: The Blackbird rises from the ashes - SUPERCHARGED - Build Thread
