firstclassjdm

Please help guys.

I put in my new importbuilders block and when I started the car, it makes a really bad knock sound. It sounds like the noise is coming from the head, but i don't understand it because we just swapped head over from old motor right onto the new block. We thought it it was needing a valve adjustment even though we had done one already. It sounds like it needed one none the less. That didn't do the trick. It went away, but came back within 30 secs. When the car idles, it knocks. As you rev up the motor the noise seems to go away. If you were to drive the car, the noise is continuous and the car laggs alot. Took the car over to have a local shop look at it and he thinks its coming from the head because that's where the noise is coming from. This guy use to assymble motors for HOnda RealTime so I kind of trust his opinion. ANyone think they might know what the problem is? Could I have somehow spun a bearing(s)? There's only 25-30 miles on the block and we have not done any full throttle run yet as the motor is not broken in. What would the noise sound like or where would it be coming from if I spun a bearing?
Sorry this post is kind of long. Please help. It would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Blackack26

Did you prime the oiling system properly before firing?

firstclassjdm

i hope i did it correctly. I did what the instructions on importbuilders website told me to do. I disconnected the distributor and cranked the motor over for about 10 secs. wait a minute. I remember we did not remove the ecu fuse. What about fuel? Could that have caused something? The noise seems to be coming from the fuel injector area and around the top of the intake manifold.

Blackack26

Its hard to pinpoint the noise just by sticking your head under the hood and listening. A stethoscope helps tremendously when trying to pin point the noise.

Cranking the car for 10 seconds (with spark plugs in) usually isn't enough to properly prime the system. I usually remove the plugs so the motor can spin freely, and crank it over for 10 second increments (about 2-3 times). I unhook the oil feed and aim it into a container so I can see when its ready to go. Do you have an oil pressure gauge?

Not saying that this caused the knocking, just some info for you to think about.

Also, I remove the main fuel relay under the dash to disable fuel.


Modified by Blackack26 at 7:48 PM 3/4/2005

firstclassjdm

thanks for the info. It might be a little late for that because the car's been running for about 25-30 miles now. I really don't know where to go from here with this.

Blackack26

If you think its coming from the bottom end, pull off the oil pan and take off the rod caps to inspect the bearings. Actually, since the shop built it for you, have them do it free of charge. Is it covered under any type of warrentee?


Modified by Blackack26 at 8:16 PM 3/4/2005

dennis

Was much decked off the block? Are these pistons coming up any higher than before? Have you drained your oil to check for anything (metal) in it? Do you have a oil pressure gauge?

dustin

Low oil pressure/bearing clearances are off if it is knocking. Do you have an oil pressure gauge?

Edit: looks like someone already asked about the gauge hehe

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I couldnt prime my oil pump until I started the motor. An oil pressure gauge is a must when starting up a freshly built motor.

Sounds like a spun bearing to me

Blackack26

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I couldnt prime my oil pump until I started the motor. An oil pressure gauge is a must when starting up a freshly built motor.

Sounds like a spun bearing to me </TD></TR></TABLE>

Mabye not spun yet, but on its way out.

dennis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> An oil pressure gauge is a must when starting up a freshly built motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Agree 100%

firstclassjdm

thanks alot for the replies guys. ImportBuilder asked me to take it out and send it back for inspection free of charge. I have an oil pressure guage, but I was too stupid to have not installed it prior to starting the motor. So you guys all think it's the bearings even though the noise appear to be coming from up top? I know, you can't base it on where you think the noise is coming from.

The block was not decked very much if any at all. I did not request for it, nor did the builder mention anything of that sort. I'm working on the oil this afternoon to see if there are any metal deposits in the oil. Thanks again guys. Will keep you posted.

0Jon at Titan

By the way you described it sounds like a Bearing issue, be wrong since i have not listened to it but you might want to try sending it back and have them take a look at it, if idles and start knocking, that sounds like a almost spun bearing and that can sound like its coming from anywhere in the engine to me so really Get it checked out and figured man good luck

forgotmypassword!(OTT)

Damn man it say on their site to repeat the 10s cranking intervals with fuel disabled untill you can SEE oil Pressure on your GUAGE which is ESSENTIAL.

When you first fired it up what did your wideband say your AFRs were at at idle?
I ask this because you say you had it running 25-30miles and if it wasn't tuned at all and you run it lean then thats just asking for trouble.

Hope you findout what the problem was but from what youve said so far it doesn't sound too smart the way you've gone about things
Hope you get it sorted pal

Unsivil_audio

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by firstclassjdm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When the car idles, it knocks. As you rev up the motor the noise seems to go away.</TD></TR></TABLE>

In my opinion I dont think you have a spun bearing on your hands. Motors with spun bearings get louder as you rev it. Sound to me like you have a bent valve, since in my experience when you rev the motor the noise gets quieter. Also more than likely with only 25 to 30 miles on the motor, I doubt you'd have a spun bearing yet even with no oil pressure, the assembly grease used to assemble motors takes a little bit to get out of the motor. What about your OEM oil light did it come on? I suggest getting that oil pressure guage hooked up asap and see what it says. If your oil pressure is fine, I would look for bent or sticking valves on the head.

forgotmypassword!(OTT)

just to add, ImportBuilders blueprints all their shortblocks to make sure everything is perfect.

The valvetrain suggestion sounds plausable, .. do a compression test!

firstclassjdm

thanks guys. Cross my fingers its only a bent valve. I know, it wasnt smart the way I approached it. Lesson learned.

earl

First off, it is impossible to crank a brand new HONDA engine enough to get oil pressure. That is why it is important to use bearing lube when building a new motor. You cannot fill that main oil galley that goes thru the block when it starts out dead empty. It takes actually starting the engine to get enough volume to fill the galley.
I hope IB uses bearing lube. If not, it could be rod related. Another area for knock could be the piston to wall clearance. (this is what the problem sounds like to me). Since you said the noise gets softer when driving.
Also could come from the small end of the rod if the pin used does not fit the rod properly. This is why I only use name brand parts in a build.
A bent valve should not knock or make noise, just cause an engine miss.
If you are not getting a check engine light for low oil pressure, the bearings should be fine.
EVERY HIGH PERFORMANCE ENGINE SHOULD HAVE AN OIL PRESSURE GUAGE.

tony1

It's very possible the pistons are hitting the head. If it's big bore and doesn't have an overbored gasket, or if the deck height of the pistons is a bit high. I've seen it happen before...

forgotmypassword!(OTT)

I highly doubt that IB would make those kinds of amateur mistakes, theyve built hundreds of motors.

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by forgotmypassword!(OTT) &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I highly doubt that IB would make those kinds of amateur mistakes, theyve built hundreds of motors.</TD></TR></TABLE>So you are saying the noise is just a figment of this guy's imagination? Why do you think IB asked for the block back?

Mase

i personally saw a brand new IB block spun a rod bearing. combined with a NA race motor they assembled wrong,


stay away from IB

firstclassjdm

Interesting. Ive never heard anyone speak of IB that way. Their work seems top notch. The reason they are asking for it back was because Jeff wants to inspect it himself to see if whether or not it was an honest mistake. He has awsome service. Has gone the extra distance for me several times. My gasket is correct bore for block. It's Golden Eagle custom OEM gasket bored out to 84.5mm. The noise gets louder as I drive the car. BUT, if the car is not moving, but the motor is running, noise only exist at idle. When revved up, noise ceases.

forgotmypassword!(OTT)

rod knock sound would still be there when you revved the engine, it would get louder, so going on what firstclassjdm said I personally doubt it is rod knock.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So you are saying the noise is just a figment of this guy's imagination? Why do you think IB asked for the block back?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No that is your suggestion and an assumption based on your opinion; Dont put words into my mouth; I would not do that to you. IB offered to inspect the block to determine the problem thats all everyone knows at the moment, it would be very unwise to start assuming things at this stage.

It is easy for people to make bias statements but can they be backed up?
Everybody has their own agenda, like I could assume Mase voiced his comment because IB is a competitor of his. Can his claim be backed up?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i personally saw a brand new IB block spun a rod bearing. combined with a NA race motor they assembled wrong,


stay away from IB</TD></TR></TABLE>

So who owned the car/engine that spun the bearing?

forgotmypassword!(OTT)

Out of curiosity, do you have new LMAs in you head or are they worn since that will make a clattering at idle.