jbell

so i've been looking for a for a fun street setup... something along the lines of 190hp.

i would like to stay reliable, since it will be my daily driver. my ultimate goal is 13.9 - 14.2...

just a few questions...

would the ls s/c bolt onto the b20 head?
what would be a safe ammount of boost on each of the engines?

ek9vboi2

i dont see why it wouldn't considering that a b20 head is almost if not the same as an LS head.

as for boost amount, it doesnt matter. its about tuning and how you drive the car that will make it last.

for a b20 motor, i would not go over 10lbs. i have a b20b and i do 10 daily, but my foot is not made of lead like others on this board, they all say 84mm stock sleeves are bad, but mines have lasted me for a while and plus i had a good tuner. i made 250hp and 225tq.

ls, u can do from 10-14 daily w/o any problems. u can make up to 300 on a stock motor.

jbell

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek9vboi2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont see why it wouldn't considering that a b20 head is almost if not the same as an LS head.

as for boost amount, it doesnt matter. its about tuning and how you drive the car that will make it last.

for a b20 motor, i would not go over 10lbs. i have a b20b and i do 10 daily, but my foot is not made of lead like others on this board, they all say 84mm stock sleeves are bad, but mines have lasted me for a while and plus i had a good tuner. i made 250hp and 225tq.

ls, u can do from 10-14 daily w/o any problems. u can make up to 300 on a stock motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i do have a lead foot. i like to run the rpms up often, and have fun.

so maybe an ls at like 8 or so pounds will give me 200hp at the wheels?

were your numbers turbo or supercharged?

jbell

bump.

ek9vboi2

ls should do u fine. i would run 10 daily, but have it tuned for 12-14lbs for them track/street runs.

ek9vboi2

btw 200whp is not going to be hard to make. my car is turbo ...

jbell

damn.

i looked all over, i cant find ANY jrsc ls dynos...

mainly because ls is too short of a search term, and everyone is too lazy to type b18b jrsc when they can just type ls sc dyno, lol.

SiKid86

go turbo! If you build your own kit you can come near the cost of the JRSC and still have the ability to make more power later on!

ek9vboi2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiKid86 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">go turbo! If you build your own kit you can come near the cost of the JRSC and still have the ability to make more power later on!</TD></TR></TABLE>

ls is made for boost, specially turbo! it makes crazy power in low rpms and keeps it consistant throughout the power band. thats why to some people vtec is not relavant (sp) in high rpms.

jbell

maybe i'll go b16... what will make 200hp more reliably, b16 or b18b?

Blaze45

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jbell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so i've been looking for a for a fun street setup... something along the lines of 190hp.

i would like to stay reliable, since it will be my daily driver. my ultimate goal is 13.9 - 14.2...

just a few questions...

would the ls s/c bolt onto the b20 head?
what would be a safe ammount of boost on each of the engines?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If your lookin to run 13s, do a CR/LSVTEC... Cheaper then FI and reliable if as long as revs and such are reasonable. If your lookin to go faster, then throw some boost at eathier one of those motors and youll be into the 13 second range for sure... Even 12s... If your lookin for NA power and 200hp.... Pick up a C5 and run 13s all day, change the oil set the valves and be drive it everywhere without reliability issues.

Blaze

jbell

i know, they are great options... but i was looking to spend -along the lines of- 4000 for a setup.. say 2500 for motor and 1500 on a supercharger down the road.

originally i wanted to get a jdm d15b and supercharge that, but everyone says its a waste of money, and i'll be lucky to break out of 15's. i have the money for that now (say 600 motor, 1500 s/c, and 400 other stuff)

its near impossible to get figures for a ls s/c here.... lol

maybe ill just get a b16, and down the road turbo it.

CaRzY AsIan

so b20z and ls which one is better for turbo? anyone?
also which trainy is better for b20z (b16 or ls)

ek9vboi2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CaRzY AsIan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so b20z and ls which one is better for turbo? anyone?
also which trainy is better for b20z (b16 or ls)</TD></TR></TABLE>

this has been discussed many times.

B18A/B will always be better for boost. The block is very solid and can hold it down. B20z is good for the all motor people, high compresson version of the b20 motors.

B16 tranny is great for track use, but I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT! You will be topping out very fast. That means no highway runs for you. LS tranny is also good, but some people see it as longer gears = a bad thing when it comes to track useage. I, myself have a GSR tranny which is very good. Shifts fast, yet can still hit over 130+ sometimes i wish i had an LS 5th gear tho.

SiKid86

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek9vboi2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this has been discussed many times.

B18A/B will always be better for boost. The block is very solid and can hold it down. B20z is good for the all motor people, high compresson version of the b20 motors.

B16 tranny is great for track use, but I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT! You will be topping out very fast. That means no highway runs for you. LS tranny is also good, but some people see it as longer gears = a bad thing when it comes to track useage. I, myself have a GSR tranny which is very good. Shifts fast, yet can still hit over 130+ sometimes i wish i had an LS 5th gear tho.</TD></TR></TABLE> I can do 140 in my 99 Si what you mean topping out very fast? B16 has a sweet tranny.. I'd recommend it.. I get like 30mpg on my car and I punch vtec every once 'n a while. But unless you plan to upgrade your block I don't think your motor will be able to rev high enough for the b16 tranny to do any good.. So then again you might have a point about topping out fast.

CaRzY AsIan

so the best way to do b20z is with b18b trans? How about gsr trans

CaRzY AsIan

So do you guys know IF I go with B16 trans on my b20z. where is my top end gonna be. also if i am going 70 on highway where is my rpm gonna be?

thank you

ek9vboi2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiKid86 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I can do 140 in my 99 Si what you mean topping out very fast? B16 has a sweet tranny.. I'd recommend it.. I get like 30mpg on my car and I punch vtec every once 'n a while. But unless you plan to upgrade your block I don't think your motor will be able to rev high enough for the b16 tranny to do any good.. So then again you might have a point about topping out fast.</TD></TR></TABLE>

u didnt understand. he has/wants a b20, but do not know what tranny to go with. of course your 99 si can top out at 140....high rpms. on an LS and B20 it is limited to 7k rpms. so imagine ur si motor with a gsr or even ls tranny, it would do circles on ur si cluster.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CaRzY AsIan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So do you guys know IF I go with B16 trans on my b20z. where is my top end gonna be. also if i am going 70 on highway where is my rpm gonna be?

thank you</TD></TR></TABLE>

top end? who knows...show us some dyno charts and ill tell u. ima tell u as simple as this... every motor is different and we dont even know what type of turbo u have in ur car. go with ls or gsr tranny. its better in many ways. if u ride highway a lot, si tranny will waste A LOT of gas b/c ur in high rpms. 70mph with my b20b and gsr tranny is about 3.5k and 4k is 80 the last time i checked.

beerbongskickass

This thread is retarded. Superchargers on hondas pretty much blow ***, you can only do so much with them, and then that's it. Going with a b-series motor and s/c for 200whp? What a waste. The LS/CRV head doesn't flow worth **** (stops making power around what, 5.5k?), so if your getting one of those blocks get a vtec head also. A b20 block plus boost isn't safe, everybody knows that though. If you want lots of low end torque get a V8. Hondas are little 4 bangers and you need to rev them high, so stop trying to turn them into a V8. The b16 tranny will go a lot higher than 140mph depending on where you rev to, but who cares, it's not like that many people trap more than 140mph in the 1/4 mile. Unless you have a drag car you don't need to go faster. The only reason I am saying anything is because the guy that created this thread posts on about a million different forums with a millions different ideas about what he wants to do, it's getting annoying. Do you research and stop asking retarded questions. Oh an I am also in a bad mood and venting on you.

ek9vboi2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This thread is retarded. Superchargers on hondas pretty much blow ***, you can only do so much with them, and then that's it. Going with a b-series motor and s/c for 200whp? What a waste. The LS/CRV head doesn't flow worth **** (stops making power around what, 5.5k?), so if your getting one of those blocks get a vtec head also. A b20 block plus boost isn't safe, everybody knows that though. If you want lots of low end torque get a V8. Hondas are little 4 bangers and you need to rev them high, so stop trying to turn them into a V8. The b16 tranny will go a lot higher than 140mph depending on where you rev to, but who cares, it's not like that many people trap more than 140mph in the 1/4 mile. Unless you have a drag car you don't need to go faster. The only reason I am saying anything is because the guy that created this thread posts on about a million different forums with a millions different ideas about what he wants to do, it's getting annoying. Do you research and stop asking retarded questions. Oh an I am also in a bad mood and venting on you. </TD></TR></TABLE>

nice to meet ya again

anyhow, ls/b20 heads do make power throught the powerband. from 3.5 to about 7k i make from 150 to 250hp and my tq at 3.5k is 200 and keeps it constant up untill 7k which is redline. ill agree with you that S/C on most honda motors are not worth it.

beerbongskickass

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek9vboi2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ls/b20 heads do make power throught the powerband. from 3.5 to about 7k i make from 150 to 250hp and my tq at 3.5k is 200 and keeps it constant up untill 7k which is redline.</TD></TR></TABLE>

In response to what you said about the LS head, I am just going to post what my buddy said in another forum since he said it so well...

Maybe a "Built" LS will pull to redline, but a stock LS with a turbokit will never pull to redline, I've personally dynoed several Turbo LS's and everyone falls off quickly after 5500. The PR4 head is the biggest piece of **** head known to man kind. The cams.. are junk.

Turbo LS/Vtec 10psi 285whp/189tq, peak power made at 8200.



Turbo LS 10psi 226whp/240tq, peak power made at 4900, what a suprise. lol



Vtec head and boost own, simple as that.. 60 whp difference is quite a bit, there are very few people making big power on LS heads. Why? because even after all the porting you do and a nice big set of cams your not going to outflow a Vtec head. People swap to vtec heads because they make more power and a funnier to drive. A straight turbo LS feels like driving a Turbo F22, the power is all in the mid range.

ek9vboi2

you seem to pull ur way in to a deeper and deeper hole.

1) that LS that you dyno or whoever the **** did it sucks monkey *****. the turbo is small for a 1.8L motor, that turbo on a b16 would do wonders or even a sohc. of course the motors going to stop making power around 5.5k rpms. your an idiot.

2) most if not all ls/vtecs on boost make over if not well over 300whp. the tq numbers are VERY low for 10lbs. Low as in GSR low, in fact the numbers that you have for that LS/VTEC is what a stock gsr would make. lol, thats ******* funny as ****.

3) that ls/vtec made 200 whp at like 5.8k while the ls made it at 4.3k. i do hope whoever tuned that LS knows that redline on an LS is 7k and not no 5.7k. i would like to know what type of turbo was used on the ls/vtec if u want to keep on with this debate over nothing. **** i dont even know where ls/vtec comes into play or even a damn LS!!! this thread is about b20s. notice how he said "would the ls s/c bolt onto the b20 head?"

4) here is my dyno chart, tuned by a real tuner who knows his ****. Mase. Thats all you need to know. You have probably heard of him.



notice my dyno chart, i start to make power at lets say...somewhere around 3.5 to 6.7k and holding strong. yes this is a b20, not an ls. the sleeves are "garbage". nuff said, this **** is proven.

psychotic_z

I have to jump on some misinformation here...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

In response to what you said about the LS head, I am just going to post what my buddy said in another forum since he said it so well...

Maybe a "Built" LS will pull to redline, but a stock LS with a turbokit will never pull to redline, I've personally dynoed several Turbo LS's and everyone falls off quickly after 5500. The PR4 head is the biggest piece of **** head known to man kind. The cams.. are junk.

Turbo LS/Vtec 10psi 285whp/189tq, peak power made at 8200.


Turbo LS 10psi 226whp/240tq, peak power made at 4900, what a suprise. lol

Vtec head and boost own, simple as that.. 60 whp difference is quite a bit, there are very few people making big power on LS heads. Why? because even after all the porting you do and a nice big set of cams your not going to outflow a Vtec head. People swap to vtec heads because they make more power and a funnier to drive. A straight turbo LS feels like driving a Turbo F22, the power is all in the mid range.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're a little misinformed on this: the actual flow difference between an LS and a VTEC head becomes negligible when you're pushing air through the head. Port and polishing, for instance, still increases power on a turbocharged motor, but only slightly. The reason why you see power peaking at 4900 rpm on that LS turbo dyno is because either the tuner is retarded or the turbo is incredibly small - The turbo is likely too small; the efficiency of the turbo was exceeded by flow demand. The compressor wheel is also spinning at such a high speed at this point that the compressed air is so severely heated that power is lost.

The dyno charts you're looking at are screwed up somehow... not only is the power band completely screwed in the "LS dyno", but the torque exceeds the horsepower. Not really possible in a stock LS or pretty much any Honda. I don't think the 2nd chart is an LS...

Peak power is a function of the head flow, bore, stroke, etc. combined... But with a turbo or supercharger, flow characteristics are pretty much negated - positive pressure and all. Most forced induction motors will continue to make power until engine speed (consequently the time that the intake valve is held open) prevents the cylinder from filling completely OR the efficiency of the turbo is exceeded and boost diminishes which both will tail off the power production.

The extra power you make in most turbo LS/VTEC's can partially be atrributed to the higher flow (but also the extra valve lift provided by the VTEC lobes, larger ports, etc.) and better design, but LS heads under forced induction are just as capable as produced 500hp+ numbers as a VTEC head is.

For instance...
http://www.importreview.com/d_turbo.html

672whp, LS motor at 32psi. No VTEC.

Stock LS at 7psi on a Drag 3 turbo kit.. power peaks at ~6500rpm. 195/183.

I don't know where you got your "stock LS" numbers from...


Modified by psychotic_z at 5:41 AM 12/7/2004

plusONE jboy

so in the end, is it worth it to have a ls/vtec setup for possible gains?

psychotic_z

I think it's all about what you're going for... Everyone says this: What are your goals?

LS/VTEC, from what I hear, is definately worth the trouble and effort. Build the bottom end to handle the RPM and you'll have torque down low and mid, and when you stomp on it, you'll have high RPM power. Best of both worlds. Don't buy into all the crap that people here tend to lay on ya about reliability - If you treat your LS/VTEC as well as you do any other motor, it'll last just as long.