CSP413

Its been awhile since ive been on HT, Im glad to be back. I used to own an all motor 96 GSR. I just recently purchased a 95 Integra Ls with a great body. I have different intentions with this Teg. Id like to BOOST. I am a NOOB when it comes to Boost and id like some quick opinions on what platform i should use. Before anyone tells me that i need to do some reading and research, i have and im just not finding the answers ive been looking for.

I have a B18b in the car now. Im trying to decide if i should just build and boost the B18b, should i get a Vtec head (more than likely a GSR) and make it an LsVtec, or should i just do a full swap and go with the B18c1?

Im not very familiar with boost yet and im just looking for a little constructive criticism.
Ive heard the GSR head flows well for boost but the low compression of the B18b can produce a lot of power as well. I do know that the GSR block comes with under piston oil squirters and a crank girdle .

Id really appreciate anyones opinions that could steer me in the right direction, i dont need anyone bashing me for being a NOOB...everyone has been one before

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Yeah, its definitely been a while for you. That "low compression / best for boost" argument went out the window just about 8-10 years ago.

In direct answer to your question, either the GS-R or the B18B are both great boost platforms, with the VTEC head doing a lot better in the upper powerband. The LS/VTEC works too, but because of the complexity of it, you're running some differing oil lines that might make things a little complicated for you.

Honestly, the GS-R is the best platform to boost. But you need to know what it takes to be able to do that. First, you need a power goal. If you're not sure of one, please check the GS-R builds thread to get a better idea of what power you think you want.

Second, you have to give yourself some rules.

A) No e-bay parts, period..Especially turbochargers I don't care who else comes on here saying "X" is ok by "Y" part isn't, don't roll the dice, as its a crap shoot. (This includes names like CXRacing, SSAutocrome, Godspeed, ring-a-ding ding, whatever...The stock engine can take up to 330whp, regardless of "boost level" or "safe psi". After that point, forged internals are the best way to go.

B) Your first boosted setup should be a complete "kit" , and don't accept lower standards by trying to save money going on some treasure hunt for small little items that would already come in the kit.. If you don't know the parts involved in putting one together, there's no point in searching used parts all over the place.

C) Have a budget in mind, but make sure the budget is realistic. Look to your own mechanical inclination, as well as abilities to work on the car. If you're not that mechanically inclined, budget extra to have help installing it. about $4k including all the supplemental parts are needed. (Yes, I'm sure people will come in to say they spend varying amounts more or less, but $4K is a reasonable amount to spend on the good parts that will last a long time.

D) Get good engine management. that's a rule you want to have at all times, and accept no substitutes for tunes from "Dudes", "bros", "homies", "peeps", or any other individual who is not qualified to work on the ignition and fuel timing of your engine. This also means to get reliable engine management from either Hondata, Neptune, AEM, Motec, Haltech, or a variety of other companies concerning your budget.

Third thing on the list. Check out those FAQs to understand about the right parts needed to get specific results. Understand how a turbo works, intercooler, everything. And please do that before creating a thread on here; chances are this question was asked and answered already and is just sitting in the FAQs just waiting to be discovered. Use Google to search these items as the forum search option is not very reliable or repeatable. Becareful what you wish for in terms of wanting constructive criticism: You might just get it, and get frustrated a bit.

Well, that's a start. People like myself are happy to help, as long as you're willing to put in some effort yourself. Some of us are well knowledgeable about the subject, but do some investigating yourself first; ride in a few turbo Hondas specifically and see if you can check out other setups in your area, if at all available.

Welcome, Godspeed, and let us know if you need some examples of items or setups to check out.

CSP413

I appreciate the help. As far as being mechanically inclined goes, I feel pretty confident that i can do all the installation i need in a swap and/or a turbo setup. The only thing im not comfortable with is doing any porting on the head and bottom end work. I could change the valvetrain and cams, etc. just never broke down the bottom end. I have read some of the FAQS and i have a good understanding of turbo parts and setups. Long story short on my HP goal, I plan on building the motor to with stand as much HP as it can hold, forged internals, valvetrain, possibly a block guard/sleeve. I havnt done alot of research on the guard or sleeve yet. And im not sure what kind of HP range that would leave me in (350+ hopefully)

nealnanoHX

Any of those motors are great to boost and will get you 300-350whp on the stock motor with a good tune. I would just boost the B18B you have now. Although Vtec is funn and makes more power in the top end. Take Shodans advice have a goal and do some research.
Dont use a block guard they cause problems.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Ok.

A) A block guard is terrible. Either sleeve it or don't. I'm sure the CNC Werks "support" system my be an alternative, but by the time you do all that, you could just sleeve it and be done.

B) porting the head is a complete waste of time, money and resources. Don't bother. You're not NA in which scavaging as much air as possible is the goal of the head, in which porting would be beneficial; its being forced in, so there's no point in doing so.

C) 350+ gives a lot of options, be it sleeving or not. Under 500whp, you may not need to sleeve. anything over 450whp, you may want to look into it.

D) for that power, camshafts are not necessary, though there are a couple types that help, depending upon the size turbocharger that you plan to use. For 350whp, they are not necessary. For 450whp, there are choices from both Skunk2 and GSC (Power division) that do fantastically well. So not only is the power goal important, but how you want the power delivered is just as important of how much power you're looking for. Looks like you need to narrow it down a bit.

E) It seems best to get a complete kit in your case, even if your mechnical inclination is very good. This way you're not searching and fighting to find little parts, or sabotaging yourself with the wrong turbochargers for the right fitment.

nealnanoHX

For well made quality turbo kits check out GoAutoworks. Great kits, name brand parts and a goo selection of setups to pick from.

CSP413

I think i may take this route. I could buy a turbo kit and boost the B18b immediately. Buy a GSR motor/tranny and start building. Forged internals, valvetrain, and sleeve then drop the GSR in to make some MAD power

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Just remember. The turbo that you use on the b18B may not necessarily transfer over to the GS-R with the same effectiveness. This is due to the completely different head designs of the two engines that change the behaviour of the effective range and responsiveness of a given turbocharger. Its one thing to use LS/VTEC to start first then to change over, but for the B18B, its a bit more complicated. So unless you want to plan for two different turbochargers (especially for the power levels you're changing from in the LS stock block to the GS-R build block). Start with the GS-R first. Plan 2 steps ahead..

Cliff notes: the turbo on the LS will not behave the same way on the GS-R for the power levels you're looking for. Expect to possibly have two turbochargers.
Constructive criticism: You're planning two completely different platforms to transfer later. this is a silly and potentially costly way to do things. Plan for one engine at a time only. OR, prepare to spend for additional equipment now.

CSP413

Sry. I do know these things, the head on a GSR is different then all other honda heads , im just getting a little anxious. Im itching to get back into a acura/honda. I sold my first one bcuz i got married, had a baby girl, and had to be a grown up for a couple years. Now my wife said its about time to get another toy.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Again, So you know. You asked which engine to boost how, and received valid reasoning and information behind such a decision. There's a lot more to this that has changed than you realize now as you've come back into the game in several significant and important ways. With that said.. I'll back out then.. good luck to you and your project

CSP413

i didnt say i wasnt following the reasoning. I just said i was a little anxious so its kind of hard making decisions. Im going to get a GSR platform and prep it for boost and good engine management system. i Just wish i couldve had it done yesterday.

nealnanoHX

Good point made. Either go LS Vtec/GSR boosted or LS boost and stick with it. The big differences in how these motors respond is in the head. A Vtec head outflows a LS head by a lot especially in Vtec.
B16 and GSR heads flow pretty much exactly the same. The GSR has slightly different blows made to feed a 1.8L and quench pads that slightly increase compression. Which is good for boost if using lower compression pistons but the difference is not worth noting.
http://www.go-autoworks-store.com/gotutusy1.html This kit with the 57 trim .63 AR Garrett turbo is a great setup for what you want to do. The 50 trim will be better for the LS motor's power band. That kit will also support more power with the proper turbo if you decide to build a motor. Good off the self complete kits.

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

Not to mention the oil squirters on the B18c.. another positive note for the final decision.

350 power goal is alot for a "noob to boost" to be starting off with. But we all started somewhere..

If you have the cash/budget to swap AND boost an 18C, then do it. But even the LS can deliver some smiles on boost.

CSP413

Im not in a hurry and ive had a dream of building a boosted monster for a while. Most of my friends have V8's that tlk a lot of smack. Ive just always found something extremely fascinating about a car that can produce big #'s with 4 cylinders.

Its time for me to get back in the game and learn a new couple new things, motor building and turbo setups. I know the big thing before was low compression BIG boost. I had a convo with a buddy last week that told me you can boost with a high compression and run E85, get crazy amount of HP. So apparently ive got a lot to catch up on....

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

heres a tip on E85

Make sure to have a station near you, and get high flowing pump and injectors.. 85 burns more volume of fuel then unleaded. i beleive its about 30% area.. but im not 100%

CSP413

So whats the deal with compression? I had always heard run 9:1, can you safely run higher (10:1-11:1)

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

what it normally is that u can use high comp, low boost.. but since E85 came out, you can play with more timing tables with the increased octane of 85. Meaning more boost can be safely added.


Edit: Probably the best thing to do is research a tuner..qualified like Shodan said, not only to tune, but can help your build to the desired power goal, and guidance along the way.

CSP413

So the system has kind of flipped...instead of running Low Compression / High Boost, people are running High Compression / Low Boost? And there are more tuning options on the High Comp/Low Boost?

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

^^
last post was editied

check out some of the B18 boosted set ups and the GSR set ups.. this way you can get a feel of whats involved and set ups.

CSP413

Im just not real familiar with any tuners around me and its kind of frustrating doing research on the internet bcuz either a) the info doesnt answer my question or b) i try asking for help and some are resistant

90da_teggy

Sounds like someone is going to eat sleep and dream turbo. I know, I was there, I just completed my build. I went with the GSR swap in my da. Currently running 7 lbs. Waiting till the dyno opens up to add more boost. My whp goal is 275, as this is a daily driver and I am not good at keeping my foot out of it. My b18c is imported so it is 10.6:1. I am part old school and boosting something this high in compression went against everything I ever learned. However so far I haven't had any problems with detonation. I am running a conservative timing table till I can get on the dyno. I was going to swap back to the ls motor as they are a dime a dozen. But there is something about boosting a c motor that gets me going. My next venture when I get bored with this setup is to go E85. I have plenty of e85 stations in the area so there is really no reason not too. Go with the GSR, you won't regret it.

90da_teggy

Here is a link that will get you some reading time. http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html

CSP413

I know i had a GSR before and had to sell it for a Truck. I always dreamed of boosting before.

damnilovepuzz3d

Nothing has really flipped, just the availability of E85 has really changed things around. People have made 850+ WHP on E85, it's basically like getting C16 out of the pump. If you're building a max-effort engine you really don't have a whole lot to gain by running lower compression, but if you're in an area where you don't have access to E85 from the pump a little bit lower compression isn't such a bad thing. I'm in an area where we have very very limited access to 94 octane and most places just have 91, I'd still like to be able to make 450+ WHP on pump gas so I decided to go a little bit lower and run 9.0:1 compression. If I had E85 available at the pump I probably would've gone for flat-top pistons and about a 10:1 compression ratio.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Its not quite there yet, there are still some chemical properties that make the two fuels still completely different.

There are still plenty of 10.0:1 -10.5:1 compression turbo motors on 93 octane. going over 10.0:1 doesn't mean you must use E85 in order for it to run correctly. There is also the use of meth/water injection for those running on 91 Octane.

E85 has a great ability to resist knock, but it ain't C16, that's for damn sure.