B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ?
12-10-2005, 05:42 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (RACEPAK)
When you say built are you also talking about a sleeved block? If you're only talking about built internals but stock sleeves, the B20 block might not be a good choice. If we are talking about sleeved block then the 84mm B20 would be better. But if you were gonna sleeve it then maybe you should consider an Ls block instead. That way you can sleeve it to 81mm or bring it out to say 82, 83, or 84mm.
12-10-2005, 06:03 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (BlueShadow)
thanks for the response...
i ment built by rods and pistons. not sleeved... sorry.
so whats the stock bore of the b20? or is it that the sleeve is thin?
i ment built by rods and pistons. not sleeved... sorry.
so whats the stock bore of the b20? or is it that the sleeve is thin?
12-10-2005, 06:43 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (RACEPAK)
yah the B20 has an 84mm bore, but the sleeves are thinner and weaker. If you sleeve it then you dont have to worry about it being weak. Do you want to sleeve the motor? if you dont want to worry about sleeving the motor then it might be better to stick with your B16 or maybe do an LSVTEC or swap in a GSR block All of which have an 81mm bore. You could run a B20-VTEC turbo but it will be very risky. If the cylinders crack then there's a chance it might also destroy your pistons/rods, head, and even the turbo.
12-10-2005, 10:10 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (BlueShadow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yah the B20 has an 84mm bore, but the sleeves are thinner and weaker. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I got a turbo b20 and have had no problems all stock internals get it tuned and you should be good. But if u plan on pushing over ten psi, Youll crack sleeves....
If u plan on running a fmu untill tuned, (dont or retard the timing a shat load too~ 4 degrees or so)
O and b20 sleeves are thicker its just a difference in design
ull make mroe power and have a bigger displacment with the b20 Id definatly go b20vtec turbo, unless u can get a LS/vtec turbo than go that route less worries (b16 is over rated
) LS/b20 
I got a turbo b20 and have had no problems all stock internals get it tuned and you should be good. But if u plan on pushing over ten psi, Youll crack sleeves....
If u plan on running a fmu untill tuned, (dont or retard the timing a shat load too~ 4 degrees or so)
O and b20 sleeves are thicker its just a difference in design
ull make mroe power and have a bigger displacment with the b20 Id definatly go b20vtec turbo, unless u can get a LS/vtec turbo than go that route less worries (b16 is over rated
) LS/b20
12-10-2005, 10:37 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (R6E6I6D)
The B20 cylinders are thinner where the cylinders meet. There is less material between cyinders.
The way I look at it is that extra 3mm of displacement *might* be good for low HP but what about high HP? A B16 or even a B18a/b with upgraded internals is already capable of way more HP then a B20. You could upgrade the internals in the B20, but the sleeves are still pretty weak. If we were to get into talking about sleeving the b16 or LS motor would be easier to sleeve. This is because of the way the cylinders were cast into the b20, which is different from the way the cylinders were cast into the other B series motors.
Keep in mind RACEPAK lives in Israel so I'd imagine it would be difficult for him to get a block sleeved. But he can get pistons rods installed at any auto shop or he can even DIY. If he were to build up just the internals on his B16 or swap the an LS motor with built internals, he has a motor that is capable of making a lot of power on stock sleeves.
The way I look at it is that extra 3mm of displacement *might* be good for low HP but what about high HP? A B16 or even a B18a/b with upgraded internals is already capable of way more HP then a B20. You could upgrade the internals in the B20, but the sleeves are still pretty weak. If we were to get into talking about sleeving the b16 or LS motor would be easier to sleeve. This is because of the way the cylinders were cast into the b20, which is different from the way the cylinders were cast into the other B series motors.
Keep in mind RACEPAK lives in Israel so I'd imagine it would be difficult for him to get a block sleeved. But he can get pistons rods installed at any auto shop or he can even DIY. If he were to build up just the internals on his B16 or swap the an LS motor with built internals, he has a motor that is capable of making a lot of power on stock sleeves.
12-10-2005, 10:40 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (BlueShadow)
yea my bad sleeves are 6mm sorry,
But if u are gunna go vtec jsut go ls/vtec its the strong smart path
My buddy detonated once on his street tuned b16 and it took a ****
Ls/vtec is cheap and quick
GO LS, hes right dont be stupid b20 will last 30k *lucky* running high boost
if u want a longer lasting daily driven turbo honda GO LS or screw the vtec head get a dart block and u can REALLY boost that (costly as **** tho)
But if u are gunna go vtec jsut go ls/vtec its the strong smart path
My buddy detonated once on his street tuned b16 and it took a ****
Ls/vtec is cheap and quick
GO LS, hes right dont be stupid b20 will last 30k *lucky* running high boost
if u want a longer lasting daily driven turbo honda GO LS or screw the vtec head get a dart block and u can REALLY boost that (costly as **** tho)
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12-10-2005, 10:43 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (RACEPAK)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RACEPAK »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for the response...
i ment built by rods and pistons. not sleeved... sorry.
so whats the stock bore of the b20? or is it that the sleeve is thin?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
IF sleeving is not an option you could just upgrade the internals like you are talking about. You might wanna steer away from the LSVTEC if you dont know of anyone that can do it in your area. Upgrading the b16 internals would be a lot easier cause you or your builder do not have to worry about matching up the right parts as you would in an LSVTEC setup. It would be wise to just make it easier on your engine builder and not go with a hybrid motor.
i ment built by rods and pistons. not sleeved... sorry.
so whats the stock bore of the b20? or is it that the sleeve is thin?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
IF sleeving is not an option you could just upgrade the internals like you are talking about. You might wanna steer away from the LSVTEC if you dont know of anyone that can do it in your area. Upgrading the b16 internals would be a lot easier cause you or your builder do not have to worry about matching up the right parts as you would in an LSVTEC setup. It would be wise to just make it easier on your engine builder and not go with a hybrid motor.
12-10-2005, 10:45 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (BlueShadow)
yea but5 he wants power, screw the engine buileder its his job 
LS/vtec my buddy ran 13.s with just intake exhaust in a Heavy DA b16 wont get u there
without more mods than that
LS/vtec my buddy ran 13.s with just intake exhaust in a Heavy DA b16 wont get u there
without more mods than that
12-10-2005, 11:09 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (R6E6I6D)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R6E6I6D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea but5 he wants power, screw the engine buileder its his job
LS/vtec my buddy ran 13.s with just intake exhaust in a Heavy DA b16 wont get u there
without more mods than that
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And then again we are talking about a turbo setup here, not an NA setup. A turbo LSVTEC will probably make more powr then a turbo b16, but is the power difference going to be big? also keep in mind where this guy is located. The quality of an LSVTEC build will depend on the builder. If the builder has never done one or they have only done a few, would it be a good idea for RACEPAK to have an LSVTEC done by that builder?
Upgrading the internals on a b16 will be cut and dry. He wouldn't even need to go to a performance shop. He could probably go to any shop that does rebuilds on Hondas and tell them the clearance specs and give them the parts that need to be installed. Or if he were to do it himself, it would be pretty simple. With a stright b16 buildup you dont have to think about which rods you need b16, b18a/b or b18c. You dont need to think about how many dowels holes you have to drill out. You dont need to think about how to setup the oil lines, and all that other stuff. With a straight b16 buildup you know all the parts you need will be out of a b16.
LS/vtec my buddy ran 13.s with just intake exhaust in a Heavy DA b16 wont get u there
without more mods than that
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And then again we are talking about a turbo setup here, not an NA setup. A turbo LSVTEC will probably make more powr then a turbo b16, but is the power difference going to be big? also keep in mind where this guy is located. The quality of an LSVTEC build will depend on the builder. If the builder has never done one or they have only done a few, would it be a good idea for RACEPAK to have an LSVTEC done by that builder?
Upgrading the internals on a b16 will be cut and dry. He wouldn't even need to go to a performance shop. He could probably go to any shop that does rebuilds on Hondas and tell them the clearance specs and give them the parts that need to be installed. Or if he were to do it himself, it would be pretty simple. With a stright b16 buildup you dont have to think about which rods you need b16, b18a/b or b18c. You dont need to think about how many dowels holes you have to drill out. You dont need to think about how to setup the oil lines, and all that other stuff. With a straight b16 buildup you know all the parts you need will be out of a b16.
12-10-2005, 11:17 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (BlueShadow)
id rather tap a head and run a oil line to build ls vtec than tear down a complete motor....
you can leave the engine in the car... throw some rod bolts/headstuds... and a cometic multilayer gasket on and u will be good
I understand he lives in Israel but its not like its a ghetto *** area...
can assume hes not gunna have what we have
the LS/vtec will make u happier lets put it at that
its a cheaper build and b16as are overrated stock ls bottom end with rod bolts will handle 8k revs and 400+ hp
if ur gunna build the engine all the way and got money get a b20sleeved...
If no go ls Vtec
you can leave the engine in the car... throw some rod bolts/headstuds... and a cometic multilayer gasket on and u will be good
I understand he lives in Israel but its not like its a ghetto *** area...
can assume hes not gunna have what we have
the LS/vtec will make u happier lets put it at that
its a cheaper build and b16as are overrated stock ls bottom end with rod bolts will handle 8k revs and 400+ hp
if ur gunna build the engine all the way and got money get a b20sleeved...
If no go ls Vtec
12-10-2005, 12:14 PM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (R6E6I6D)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R6E6I6D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">id rather tap a head and run a oil line to build ls vtec than tear down a complete motor....
you can leave the engine in the car... throw some rod bolts/headstuds... and a cometic multilayer gasket on and u will be good</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry but what you are saying makes no sense. Are are we comparing a LSVTEC with a stock bottom end vs a B16 with fully built internals? it sounds like it because you're saying you'd rather tap the head then tear down the motor. I'm assuming if you didn't want to tear down the motor you are talking about a stock LS block.
However if you are talking about a fully built internal LSVTEC vs fully built B16, then obviously the LSVTEC is going to need more work as well as some research to make sure you do the conversion properly.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R6E6I6D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if ur gunna build the engine all the way and got money get a b20sleeved...
If no go ls Vtec </TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont think he is gonna sleeve, but even if he was he should go with something other then a CRV block. A lot of the engine builders will say that they would rather sleeve the LS instead of the CRV. I've seen posts by people from GE and people who sell GE sleeved blocks, and they all say that a CRV block is a PITA to sleeve because of the unique way the block was cast by Honda. If it's displacement we are worried about, then ask most engine builders/block sleevers and you'll see that they dont charge extra for larger bores. The sleeve price for a 81mm, 82mm, 83mm, 84mm and so on will all be the same.
you can leave the engine in the car... throw some rod bolts/headstuds... and a cometic multilayer gasket on and u will be good
</TD></TR></TABLE>Sorry but what you are saying makes no sense. Are are we comparing a LSVTEC with a stock bottom end vs a B16 with fully built internals? it sounds like it because you're saying you'd rather tap the head then tear down the motor. I'm assuming if you didn't want to tear down the motor you are talking about a stock LS block.
However if you are talking about a fully built internal LSVTEC vs fully built B16, then obviously the LSVTEC is going to need more work as well as some research to make sure you do the conversion properly.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R6E6I6D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if ur gunna build the engine all the way and got money get a b20sleeved...
If no go ls Vtec
</TD></TR></TABLE>I dont think he is gonna sleeve, but even if he was he should go with something other then a CRV block. A lot of the engine builders will say that they would rather sleeve the LS instead of the CRV. I've seen posts by people from GE and people who sell GE sleeved blocks, and they all say that a CRV block is a PITA to sleeve because of the unique way the block was cast by Honda. If it's displacement we are worried about, then ask most engine builders/block sleevers and you'll see that they dont charge extra for larger bores. The sleeve price for a 81mm, 82mm, 83mm, 84mm and so on will all be the same.
12-10-2005, 12:43 PM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (BlueShadow)
wow thanks for the responses guys...
i asked about the b20 because its easy to find it in israel as you know its of a crv...(no acrons round here
)
i'm not gonna sleeve the engine... its a pita to send it to the us and back to here... as you said before... no one here know's how to do that stuff.
so i guess ill have to push out the b16 to the max with a good turbo and 9.1 cr....
i asked about the b20 because its easy to find it in israel as you know its of a crv...(no acrons round here
)i'm not gonna sleeve the engine... its a pita to send it to the us and back to here... as you said before... no one here know's how to do that stuff.
so i guess ill have to push out the b16 to the max with a good turbo and 9.1 cr....
12-10-2005, 12:50 PM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (RACEPAK)
That would be the best thing to do IMO. If you cant find a LS and dont want to sleeve you can make do with the b16. Upgraded pistons, rods, ARP headstuds and maybe even some valvetrain or headwork and the car will be capable of a lot of power. The b16 might not have as much torque as a B18 or B20, but you could make up for that by going with a BB turbo.
What are your HP goals anyways?
What are your HP goals anyways?
12-10-2005, 01:04 PM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (BlueShadow)
goals are somthing like 400hp...
i all ready got main/head studs.bearings.gasket kit.ic.prelude lma's. revhard manifold.ect...ect...
besides of pistons and rods i need alot of stuff to make it happan...
still missing:
EF9
TRANNY
DIZZY
AXLES
ecU
timing belt and water pump.
my wish list^^^
i all ready got main/head studs.bearings.gasket kit.ic.prelude lma's. revhard manifold.ect...ect...
besides of pistons and rods i need alot of stuff to make it happan...
still missing:
EF9
TRANNY
DIZZY
AXLES
ecU
timing belt and water pump.
my wish list^^^
12-10-2005, 01:11 PM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (RACEPAK)
If you can afford it a GT30R might be a good turbo for you. It's twice the cost of a regular turbo, but you can use the money that you saved from not getting it sleeved, hehehe. The faster spoolup should make up for the displacement. But I would think that even with a regular non-BB turbo and 400WHP in a EF/b16 you would be very satisfied.
12-10-2005, 01:25 PM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (BlueShadow)
stock ls internals can handle 400 hp with a tune, b16 might have some problems
honestly im not trying to argue with this blueshadow dude anymroe b/c in all honesty a LS turbo will make more torque and power with a proper tune and that is stock...
Dont listen to me search around... No replacement for displacement!
b18a/b > b16
honestly im not trying to argue with this blueshadow dude anymroe b/c in all honesty a LS turbo will make more torque and power with a proper tune and that is stock...
Dont listen to me search around... No replacement for displacement!
b18a/b > b16
12-10-2005, 02:11 PM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (R6E6I6D)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R6E6I6D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock ls internals can handle 400 hp with a tune, b16 might have some problems
honestly im not trying to argue with this blueshadow dude anymroe b/c in all honesty a LS turbo will make more torque and power with a proper tune and that is stock...
Dont listen to me search around... No replacement for displacement!
b18a/b > b16 </TD></TR></TABLE>
So you're saying he should trust a stock internal LSVTEC to make 400WHP instead of a fully built b16 which will almost certainly not blow? That's a pretty big risk to take with the LSVTEC just so you can have a little more torque.
Look I'm not saying he should stay away from LSVTEC's because more displacement is bad. I'm saying he shouldn't go with an LSVTEC if he cannot find a good engine builder. OBVIOUSLY more displacement is better, but what good is that extra displacement if the LSVTEC was built wrong or built poorly? If he can get an LS block then I say build it up internally and find a shop that knows how to do an LSVTEC. If nobody around him knows how to do an LSVTEC, then he can try doing it himself or just stick with a b16 block and upgraded internals.
honestly im not trying to argue with this blueshadow dude anymroe b/c in all honesty a LS turbo will make more torque and power with a proper tune and that is stock...
Dont listen to me search around... No replacement for displacement!
b18a/b > b16 </TD></TR></TABLE>
So you're saying he should trust a stock internal LSVTEC to make 400WHP instead of a fully built b16 which will almost certainly not blow? That's a pretty big risk to take with the LSVTEC just so you can have a little more torque.
Look I'm not saying he should stay away from LSVTEC's because more displacement is bad. I'm saying he shouldn't go with an LSVTEC if he cannot find a good engine builder. OBVIOUSLY more displacement is better, but what good is that extra displacement if the LSVTEC was built wrong or built poorly? If he can get an LS block then I say build it up internally and find a shop that knows how to do an LSVTEC. If nobody around him knows how to do an LSVTEC, then he can try doing it himself or just stick with a b16 block and upgraded internals.
12-10-2005, 02:30 PM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (RACEPAK)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RACEPAK »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">goals are somthing like 400hp...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Stick with the b16, if you get forged internals (which you are planning) and a proper turbo you will not have an issue with that HP goal.
Stick with the b16, if you get forged internals (which you are planning) and a proper turbo you will not have an issue with that HP goal.
12-11-2005, 09:10 PM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (R6E6I6D)
Hands down the b16 will be a better choice. It will handle more power in stock form. The b20 sleeves are useless for boost. This has been covered way too many times, it's a fact the design of the b20 sleeves make them weak.
12-11-2005, 11:28 PM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (beerbongskickass)
no **** READ, sorry but he is BUILDING the engine sooo its a choice between ls/vtec build... or b16a (less potential) build ........
hahah sorry im biased as hell but the one 6 is by far a overrated engine.....
and about an engine builder not being able to do ls/vtec... than what the hell is he geting paid for??
hahah, sorry but any ******* can look on HT for about 5 minutes and learn how to build LS/vtec
hahah sorry im biased as hell but the one 6 is by far a overrated engine.....
and about an engine builder not being able to do ls/vtec... than what the hell is he geting paid for??
hahah, sorry but any ******* can look on HT for about 5 minutes and learn how to build LS/vtec
12-12-2005, 03:36 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (R6E6I6D)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R6E6I6D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and about an engine builder not being able to do ls/vtec... than what the hell is he geting paid for??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just cause you're paying somebody to do the work doesn't mean it's gonna come out right if they dont know how to do it.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R6E6I6D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hahah, sorry but any ******* can look on HT for about 5 minutes and learn how to build LS/vtec</TD></TR></TABLE>
So 5 minutes of research on the internet is your idea of how to build up a reliable LSVTEC?
Just cause you're paying somebody to do the work doesn't mean it's gonna come out right if they dont know how to do it.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R6E6I6D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hahah, sorry but any ******* can look on HT for about 5 minutes and learn how to build LS/vtec
</TD></TR></TABLE>So 5 minutes of research on the internet is your idea of how to build up a reliable LSVTEC?
12-12-2005, 07:47 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (R6E6I6D)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R6E6I6D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no **** READ, sorry but he is BUILDING the engine sooo its a choice between ls/vtec build... or b16a (less potential) build ........</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, I didn't want to read through all the bullshit. I was just replying to his original post between the B16 or B20/Vtec.
Sorry, I didn't want to read through all the bullshit. I was just replying to his original post between the B16 or B20/Vtec.
12-12-2005, 10:11 AM
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Re: B16A2 or B16A2 head and b20 block for boost ? (beerbongskickass)
got ya got ya... ls/vtec isnt a hard build.
meh ur not even helping him anymore... ur jsut arguing with me
meh ur not even helping him anymore... ur jsut arguing with me