Ok, I'm inquiring about this and just want answers that are meaningful and not just like "oh yea man tha K20 is hella cool yo". I don't want to sound like a newb for asking this.....I know it is covered about B16's and B18's (and people don't like that kind of thread here haha), but I'm just curious so I had to ask:

Is it possible to compare the B18C1 motor to a K20 motor? Like say each is built so its not a lop-sided comparison. What exactly would make the B-series motor better than a K20 in terms of mechanical equipment and vice versus? I am just wondering about this in relation to a forced induction application.

 

Now I'm a fan of any good performing motor, but k series is just too advanced to be compared to any other honda series. Comparing b series to k series is like comparing one of hondas non vtec motors to a vtec motor. The technology just makes it a one sided comparison. i-vtec is like a new vtec, thats pretty much what I'm saying. Unless someone totally rebuilt a b series engine to change the intake cam timing for optimum fuel effeciency and power levels, the k series engine will far outweigh b series. thats just my 2 cents. Now lets hear from some guru's on forced induction about the k series.

 

from what i have been told by my friends who work at honda, the K series head outflows almost any PORTED B series head by a huge margin. simple things like that will put the K above the B. now im not gonna run out and buy one right away, i just cant afford it. but things like the displacement, head, and design of the motors are very advanced. cool air in the front, hot out the back, thermal efficiency alone helps out alot.

there are guys amking more power stock from a K than guys with bolts, to include cams and valvetrain.

i have seen bolt on K20s make 205 and great torque, and its a little pricey to make a B series put out 205 NA, and the K series is just getting started

 

From everything that Ive read, mrbsponge is correct on everything stated. http://www.k20.org is a great website for info on the k20.

IMO the K20 is a much better starting platform for any route your going, FI or NA. Power is made much easier due to such a better overall engine design.

In short, K20> All B series.

Blaze

 

this is mroe than likely the same debate when vtec motors came out as well. you have your die hard LS people, and you have your vtec people. same thing here. there are alot of hater sout there when it comes to change, but change is good.

when the prices slowly come down you will see a huge market shift to the K, just wait

 

the K-series is awesome, a much stouter and well built motor all around compared to the B. But from what i've heard, their only weakness is the transmission. Jeff Evan's and his dad were both explaining it to me.

And for what it's worth, i'll run a Built B, before i spend the money to go K and break something

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrbsponge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">from what i have been told by my friends who work at honda, the K series head outflows almost any PORTED B series head by a huge margin. simple things like that will put the K above the B.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would have to see this to believe this.

I have to agree though. The K series is the future.

 

Thanks for all the informative posts guys

 

I agree K is the future and is a better design than the B motors. Its obvious, Honda uses the K as a replacement for the B for a reason. Honda is not Dumb. If money was not a issue, K all the way.

 

the K series has a horrible rod design . likes to chuck rods out the motor. ive seen a few alrady. it does NOT like to rev.

 

the only disadvantages K series have are price which will go down soon hopefully and aftermarket support which is nowhere near B-series but is getting better and better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by project dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the K series has a horrible rod design . likes to chuck rods out the motor. ive seen a few alrady. it does NOT like to rev. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I spoke with Mark Brauning's dad about this a couple of weeks ago when i was up at their shop for the dyno day. He said that is one reason they aren't using a K in their new racecar. Apparantely a lot of the all motor K's revving to 10k like to chuck rods.

 

why not compare H to K?
h's only suck because of the FRM and the trannies...

sleeves and h2b adapter...and bam, best honda combo money can buy

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rhd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not compare H to K?
h's only suck because of the FRM and the trannies...

sleeves and h2b adapter...and bam, best honda combo money can buy</TD></TR></TABLE>

Simply because I wasn't concerned with H-series for this comparison. I didn't want it to get way out of hand and have people start comparing every motor on earth haha. Plus H's are just not as common

 

not as common?

as common as what? there's a fuckton more than K's out there

oe and swapped

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rhd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not as common?

as common as what? there's a fuckton more than K's out there

oe and swapped</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol @ fuckton

ya, there are quite a few more Hs out there than Ks... hence the price difference - ya?

 

Comparing Ks to the Bs is like carbs to EFIs. The K is the next step up from the B series. I personally think the K is one of the greatest engine platforms out there and I am positive the aftermarket will make as many parts for the k20 as the B16 had. This would be my first choice for a motor.(If i had the money and motivation to swap it into a lighter car!!!)

 

ok then, for my comparision/inquiry I wasn't concerned with H's because I don't like them. Can't argue with that haha

 

question comes from is this going to be a street car or race car?


i picked a built b-series over a k-swap because i know that it will be the same hp #'s except one will be a whole lot expensive then each other. i'm pretty sure you can only make around 450 hp on pump gas for both motors, and that is more than enough for a street car, that's the reason why i chose a b over the k. i'm not looking into some crazy hp on race gas or anything, i just want to be able to smoke v8's like nothing on the street

but i'm pretty sure if you are going all out race and want to make 1000+ hp, the k-series is the way to go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrbsponge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> cool air in the front, hot out the back, thermal efficiency alone helps out alot.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes i also noticed this and i think its a simple thought of how you could improve thermal efficiency which has made the k better than b in regards of thermal effieciency.

but how about the trannys how is the k series tranny compared to the ls or gsr? i know the gsr trannys is a really good tranny for boost because of the longer gears and i know shorter gears like the k are good for n/a but is it true the k tranny wouldnt work too well with boost because you would have less rpm of boost espeicially with the bigger turbos such as t3/67 sc61 gt42?....this has been my opinion but correct me if im wrong.

 

I am not sure but I think what Dunc wanted to know is more of the "why" is Kseries better... I may be wrong but I'd be interested in seeing an in depth discussion about the actual improvements honda made. I dont think there is much to learn from the head flows better than a Bseries.

Honda started with vtec to build the thing and they improved upon it but what was changed? The motors cant be as different as everyone says if they started this new platform with the same variable valve timing theory.

What changes make the motor respond the way it does? People are making big gains with just boltons...

Also there is more wrong with H motors than just sleeves and trannies. The r/s ratio is bad in comparison to a B and most head porters I've talked to say Hseries heads flow poorly compared to a Bseries. I think its the standard that B is greater than H.

 

Another thing about the K engine is they use timing chain instead of timing belt. The chain will limit the re-ability of the engine too. Timing chain is harsh on the valve train, leading to drop valves. Also, horse power goal is the main factor in deciding which engine to use too.

 

I will just say I went from riding in tons of Bseries and tuning a ton of them, but never actually owning one, to now owning a K20. There is no comparison what so ever, the car is soo different than anything I have ever driven.

And about the head being able to outflow a ported B, I knwo that IPS or whoever did a Built up with the K20A, found no gains at all after porting the head with their K3 Cams, and that was a fully built N/A motor.

 

the design is also better for traction cuz the way the motor rotates and the mounts are its more effective in torquing the motor the correct way.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93preludes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am not sure but I think what Dunc wanted to know is more of the "why" is Kseries better... I may be wrong but I'd be interested in seeing an in depth discussion about the actual improvements honda made. I dont think there is much to learn from the head flows better than a Bseries. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Bingo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6junkie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">question comes from is this going to be a street car or race car? </TD></TR></TABLE>

That doesn't matter for this inquiry. I guess to help bring everything to the plate in this discussion let's talk about 100% fully built top to bottom, best of the best parts...you get the idea basically best case scenarios for both.

Hell, even with just the layout of the exhaust (being away from the coolant stuff) I'd be willing to switch over from my current setup haha. I just didn't know if the K20's were as accepting of boost as the B-series...what other things like 93preludes said.