Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's
06-07-2006, 01:09 PM
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Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's
Well a friend/co-worker of mine and i were having a conversation at work about compression on boosted motors. He is a domestic guy and i obviously am an import guy but have a passion for both.
Here's the argument.....I said that a friend of mine should boost his V-8 that is currently at 10.2-10.4cp, the car has all forged internals and aluminum heads, it is stroked and bored, reguardless of this this his argument is that do to higher compression a V-8 motor recieves more stress with higher compression than a 4 cylinder with the same cp. I then told him about the k20 and its 11.1cp and how people have made rediclous numbers with them, but his argument was still that since there are less cylinders there is less stress at the same set compression as opposed to a V8 at the same cp.
I agree to a point with him due to rotating assembly weights but still cant agree with his side of the arguement. We then got into retarding timing, EGT differences and IAT's etc but it led no where aside from our motors running hotter than most V8's.
I know this is kind of a ramble but i would like to get opinions with knowledgable answers aside from i am horribly wrong to he is a complete idiot.
TIA
Here's the argument.....I said that a friend of mine should boost his V-8 that is currently at 10.2-10.4cp, the car has all forged internals and aluminum heads, it is stroked and bored, reguardless of this this his argument is that do to higher compression a V-8 motor recieves more stress with higher compression than a 4 cylinder with the same cp. I then told him about the k20 and its 11.1cp and how people have made rediclous numbers with them, but his argument was still that since there are less cylinders there is less stress at the same set compression as opposed to a V8 at the same cp.
I agree to a point with him due to rotating assembly weights but still cant agree with his side of the arguement. We then got into retarding timing, EGT differences and IAT's etc but it led no where aside from our motors running hotter than most V8's.
I know this is kind of a ramble but i would like to get opinions with knowledgable answers aside from i am horribly wrong to he is a complete idiot.
TIA
06-07-2006, 01:21 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (urbansi)
High compression is only half the argument. You can have a cylinder head/piston combo yielding a static compression ratio of 12:1 but depending on the cam profile you can have a dynamic compression ratio of 9:1 or less, while having a static compression ratio of 10.5:1 you can still yield a dynamic compression ratio of 9:1 (generic example).
Lower compression just allows you to run more boost on a given octane fuel. Say you're limited to 93 octane, you can run 8:1 pistons and 20 psi or 12:1 pistons and 10 psi (generic example) and make 400 hp with both setups but in the end you're limited to the octane of the fuel.
If you have a V8, high-compression boosting 10 psi making say 500hp and then cut ignition/fuel to half of the cylinders there will be roughly half the amount of power (minus pumping losses). Half the amount of power, half the amount of stress. Horsepower is what breaks things.
Modified by backpurge at 10:33 PM 6/7/2006
Lower compression just allows you to run more boost on a given octane fuel. Say you're limited to 93 octane, you can run 8:1 pistons and 20 psi or 12:1 pistons and 10 psi (generic example) and make 400 hp with both setups but in the end you're limited to the octane of the fuel.
If you have a V8, high-compression boosting 10 psi making say 500hp and then cut ignition/fuel to half of the cylinders there will be roughly half the amount of power (minus pumping losses). Half the amount of power, half the amount of stress. Horsepower is what breaks things.
Modified by backpurge at 10:33 PM 6/7/2006
06-07-2006, 01:38 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (backpurge)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by backpurge »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">High compression is only half the argument. You can have a cylinder head/piston combo yielding a static compression ratio of 12:1 but depending on the cam profile you can have a dynamic compression ratio of 9:1 or less, while having a static compression ratio of 10.5:1 you can still yield a dynamic compression ratio of 9:1 (generic example).
Lower compression just allows you to run more boost on a given octane fuel. Say you're limited to 93 octane, you can run 8:1 pistons and 20 psi or 12:1 pistons and 10 psi (generic example) and make 400 hp with both setups but in the end you're limited to the octane of the fuel.
If you have a V8, high-compression boosting 10 psi making say 500hp and then cut ignition/fuel to half of the cylinders there will be roughly half the amount of power (minus pumping losses). Half the amount of power, half the amount of stress. Horsepower is what breaks things.
Modified by backpurge at 10:33 PM 6/7/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
...but compare a V8 making 500hp to a 4 cylinder making 500hp. The V8 is making 62.5hp per cylinder whereas the 4 cylinder is making 125hp per cylinder. The 4 cylinder has twice as much stress on each of it pistons, rods, and cylinder walls. As far as a V8 not being able to boost with as much compression, generally they don't. I believe that the Honda combustion chamber designs are better and the engines are more suitably designed for high compression than most stock V8 motors are.
Lower compression just allows you to run more boost on a given octane fuel. Say you're limited to 93 octane, you can run 8:1 pistons and 20 psi or 12:1 pistons and 10 psi (generic example) and make 400 hp with both setups but in the end you're limited to the octane of the fuel.
If you have a V8, high-compression boosting 10 psi making say 500hp and then cut ignition/fuel to half of the cylinders there will be roughly half the amount of power (minus pumping losses). Half the amount of power, half the amount of stress. Horsepower is what breaks things.
Modified by backpurge at 10:33 PM 6/7/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
...but compare a V8 making 500hp to a 4 cylinder making 500hp. The V8 is making 62.5hp per cylinder whereas the 4 cylinder is making 125hp per cylinder. The 4 cylinder has twice as much stress on each of it pistons, rods, and cylinder walls. As far as a V8 not being able to boost with as much compression, generally they don't. I believe that the Honda combustion chamber designs are better and the engines are more suitably designed for high compression than most stock V8 motors are.
06-07-2006, 01:41 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (RyanCivic2000)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I believe that the Honda combustion chamber designs are better and the engines are more suitably designed for high compression than most stock V8 motors are. </TD></TR></TABLE>
L..... S..... 1......? 11° cylinder heads, flat top pistons, high compression, over 100% volumetric efficiency with just tuning on a stock motor.
He was comparing a I4 and a V8 with equal compression and boost, not equal horsepower.
I believe that the Honda combustion chamber designs are better and the engines are more suitably designed for high compression than most stock V8 motors are. </TD></TR></TABLE>
L..... S..... 1......? 11° cylinder heads, flat top pistons, high compression, over 100% volumetric efficiency with just tuning on a stock motor.
He was comparing a I4 and a V8 with equal compression and boost, not equal horsepower.
06-07-2006, 01:46 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (backpurge)
another factor in compression ratio versus boost is how detanation prone the combustion chamber and piston are. lots of sharp edges, a wrongly designed squish area, etc can be bad for boost. then you can have a correctly designed 10:1 motor with strong internals that just owns.
personally, I think that more displacement and less boost is a better idea for a wide powerband.
of course, everything has its place. a 500hp B16 weighs a good bit less than a 500hp 426 hemi. I wonder which one lasts longer...
personally, I think that more displacement and less boost is a better idea for a wide powerband.
of course, everything has its place. a 500hp B16 weighs a good bit less than a 500hp 426 hemi. I wonder which one lasts longer...
06-07-2006, 02:30 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (Sonic Reducer)
From all that I know, it would come down to one main factor - bore size. From there, it would be changed by rod/stroke ratio, and other obvious factors like combustion chamber layout.
The bore size more or less dictates timing you run. Larger bore = flame has to travel farther, meaning more timing. This then is altered by the height vs width of the chamber. Detonation is basicly the bad effects (pressure waves) of preignition, caused by self-igniting gas. I believe it would be more prevalent in a larger bore, since you get a longer time for unburnt gas linger, and it heating up the area around the plug longer. Rod/stroke ratio would alter it by giving you a higher chance of detonation with a smaller ratio. You'd want a bit more timing since the piston isn't at/near tdc as long.
A bit off the main question - you have less issues with more power/cylinder with an inline motor than a wedge. The majority of the combustion force is downward, where as the wedge means the power is twisting things all up. The reason new motors like the LS1 can take/make all that power - the bracing. The main caps holding the crank on are massive vs. older v8's. The castings are also higher quality, as you'd expect from a 30yr newer design.
The bore size more or less dictates timing you run. Larger bore = flame has to travel farther, meaning more timing. This then is altered by the height vs width of the chamber. Detonation is basicly the bad effects (pressure waves) of preignition, caused by self-igniting gas. I believe it would be more prevalent in a larger bore, since you get a longer time for unburnt gas linger, and it heating up the area around the plug longer. Rod/stroke ratio would alter it by giving you a higher chance of detonation with a smaller ratio. You'd want a bit more timing since the piston isn't at/near tdc as long.
A bit off the main question - you have less issues with more power/cylinder with an inline motor than a wedge. The majority of the combustion force is downward, where as the wedge means the power is twisting things all up. The reason new motors like the LS1 can take/make all that power - the bracing. The main caps holding the crank on are massive vs. older v8's. The castings are also higher quality, as you'd expect from a 30yr newer design.
06-07-2006, 02:49 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (backpurge)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by backpurge »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
L..... S..... 1......? 11° cylinder heads, flat top pistons, high compression, over 100% volumetric efficiency with just tuning on a stock motor.
He was comparing a I4 and a V8 with equal compression and boost, not equal horsepower.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LS1's are also 2 valves a cylinder, does not have an optimum quench, etc... Almost every engine can make power, but not all could make the power safely at insane HP/L on a certain octane rating.
Hondas are really good in resisting detonation. It's the whole package actually and not just from the heads. If you were to produce the same HP/L or TQ/L on pump gas on an LS1, we are talking about 1300+ RWHP (ie: 220+ WHP/L) on pump gas...rofl
On the other hand, 420 WHP 1.8L B-series could actually be daily driven. That's the key difference.
As regarding to stress, it's all about power and torque. Depending on turbo, cams, tuning, etc... One engine would be pushing way more power than the other at the same boost and compression. So this argument is pretty stupid because a V8 with a puny turbo and shitty cams would only push about 400 WHP @ 6 psi for example, while the same V8 with a large turbo could push 600 WHP at the same 6 psi. Again, it's about power and torque when it comes to stress. Same goes for the 4 cylinder. And when comparing to a 4-cyl and V8, it's all about HP/L or TQ/L to get an idea if the stress on the rods, crank, pistons, etc... You can't compare the stress on two engines without comparing power.
L..... S..... 1......? 11° cylinder heads, flat top pistons, high compression, over 100% volumetric efficiency with just tuning on a stock motor.
He was comparing a I4 and a V8 with equal compression and boost, not equal horsepower.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LS1's are also 2 valves a cylinder, does not have an optimum quench, etc... Almost every engine can make power, but not all could make the power safely at insane HP/L on a certain octane rating.
Hondas are really good in resisting detonation. It's the whole package actually and not just from the heads. If you were to produce the same HP/L or TQ/L on pump gas on an LS1, we are talking about 1300+ RWHP (ie: 220+ WHP/L) on pump gas...rofl
On the other hand, 420 WHP 1.8L B-series could actually be daily driven. That's the key difference.
As regarding to stress, it's all about power and torque. Depending on turbo, cams, tuning, etc... One engine would be pushing way more power than the other at the same boost and compression. So this argument is pretty stupid because a V8 with a puny turbo and shitty cams would only push about 400 WHP @ 6 psi for example, while the same V8 with a large turbo could push 600 WHP at the same 6 psi. Again, it's about power and torque when it comes to stress. Same goes for the 4 cylinder. And when comparing to a 4-cyl and V8, it's all about HP/L or TQ/L to get an idea if the stress on the rods, crank, pistons, etc... You can't compare the stress on two engines without comparing power.
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06-07-2006, 04:18 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (Tony the Tiger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
LS1's are also 2 valves a cylinder, does not have an optimum quench, etc... Almost every engine can make power, but not all could make the power safely at insane HP/L on a certain octane rating.
Hondas are really good in resisting detonation. It's the whole package actually and not just from the heads. If you were to produce the same HP/L or TQ/L on pump gas on an LS1, we are talking about 1300+ RWHP (ie: 220+ WHP/L) on pump gas...rofl
On the other hand, 420 WHP 1.8L B-series could actually be daily driven. That's the key difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A. You're kidding right? HP/Liter... who cares this has 1240 HP/Liter...
Does that mean this is the epitome of engine design? No.
B. Stock for stock... what's faster, a LS1 car or a B-series car? Yeah, thought so. Now, 14 psi on LS1 or 14 psi on a B-series car, what's faster. Again, thought so.
No one really gives a expletive about HP/Liter except for people with a slow *** car who want to have an excuse to use when they loose to a car with more displacement. The truth hurts, I know.
And last time I checked you can daily drive an LS1 with just heads/cam and make 400+ rwhp. Saying that at a minimum you need 1300 +rwhp on LS1 car to be the equivilent of a 400+ whp Civic is a joke, right?
Modified by backpurge at 2:03 AM 6/8/2006
LS1's are also 2 valves a cylinder, does not have an optimum quench, etc... Almost every engine can make power, but not all could make the power safely at insane HP/L on a certain octane rating.
Hondas are really good in resisting detonation. It's the whole package actually and not just from the heads. If you were to produce the same HP/L or TQ/L on pump gas on an LS1, we are talking about 1300+ RWHP (ie: 220+ WHP/L) on pump gas...rofl
On the other hand, 420 WHP 1.8L B-series could actually be daily driven. That's the key difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A. You're kidding right? HP/Liter... who cares this has 1240 HP/Liter...
Does that mean this is the epitome of engine design? No.
B. Stock for stock... what's faster, a LS1 car or a B-series car? Yeah, thought so. Now, 14 psi on LS1 or 14 psi on a B-series car, what's faster. Again, thought so.
No one really gives a expletive about HP/Liter except for people with a slow *** car who want to have an excuse to use when they loose to a car with more displacement. The truth hurts, I know.
And last time I checked you can daily drive an LS1 with just heads/cam and make 400+ rwhp. Saying that at a minimum you need 1300 +rwhp on LS1 car to be the equivilent of a 400+ whp Civic is a joke, right?
Modified by backpurge at 2:03 AM 6/8/2006
06-07-2006, 04:23 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (backpurge)
remember this. a b-series motor has more main bearing support area for the crank than a big block chevy motor does
06-07-2006, 05:27 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (backpurge)
I just gotta ask. Are you retarded or just dont know how to read? Im pretty sure he never said anything about which car would be faster.
And for the last time, its LOSE not LOOSE, it makes you wonder how many people on this forum actually graduated HS.
And for the last time, its LOSE not LOOSE, it makes you wonder how many people on this forum actually graduated HS.
06-07-2006, 05:29 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (Tony the Tiger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
On the other hand, 420 WHP 1.8L B-series could actually be daily driven. That's the key difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you saying a 420whp Ls1 cant be daily driven?
On the other hand, 420 WHP 1.8L B-series could actually be daily driven. That's the key difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you saying a 420whp Ls1 cant be daily driven?
06-07-2006, 05:31 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (95GSRTT)
Keep it civil...
Its good to see someone giving a different opinion, actually. I do think you may have misunderstood Tonys post though Backpurge, you have a point but I dont know if what youre saying is really in response to what was brought up.
Its good to see someone giving a different opinion, actually. I do think you may have misunderstood Tonys post though Backpurge, you have a point but I dont know if what youre saying is really in response to what was brought up.
06-07-2006, 06:00 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (95GSRTT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95GSRTT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just gotta ask. Are you retarded or just dont know how to read? Im pretty sure he never said anything about which car would be faster.
And for the last time, its LOSE not LOOSE, it makes you wonder how many people on this forum actually graduated HS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hmmm... I could spell big words like "epitome" but I don't know the difference between "lose" and "loose", or maybe it's just, god forbid, I typo'd an extra letter in the word lose.
Now to prove I know the difference between the two.
" Your mother is a loose *****."
" I usually lose in races because I drive a Civic. "
Just had to.
And the point of all my twenty billion posts... Horsepower = stress. Doesn't matter if it's a four cylinder or an eight, horsepower breaks stuff. Stock motors are designed to handle stock horsepower, anything over that you're just rolling the dice.
And for the last time, its LOSE not LOOSE, it makes you wonder how many people on this forum actually graduated HS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hmmm... I could spell big words like "epitome" but I don't know the difference between "lose" and "loose", or maybe it's just, god forbid, I typo'd an extra letter in the word lose.
Now to prove I know the difference between the two.
" Your mother is a loose *****."
" I usually lose in races because I drive a Civic. "
Just had to.
And the point of all my twenty billion posts... Horsepower = stress. Doesn't matter if it's a four cylinder or an eight, horsepower breaks stuff. Stock motors are designed to handle stock horsepower, anything over that you're just rolling the dice.
06-07-2006, 06:07 PM
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LSx engines are one of the best, if NOT the best engines there are...period. alum block(cept stuff liek the lq9) alum heads, composite intakes, rediculously strong, super friendly to mods, and plenty of ppl are running 9's on stock engines. they're cheap to mod, cheap to own, and get upper 20's mpg...can't beat lsx
06-07-2006, 06:30 PM
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http://www.memphisracingscene....6.wmv
damn...look at all those shitty boosted v8's...
haha, ok, cheap shot
damn...look at all those shitty boosted v8's...
haha, ok, cheap shot
06-07-2006, 06:44 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (backpurge)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by backpurge »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Now to prove I know the difference between the two.
" Your mother is a loose *****."
" I usually lose in races because I drive a Civic. "
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Now to prove I know the difference between the two.
" Your mother is a loose *****."
" I usually lose in races because I drive a Civic. "
</TD></TR></TABLE>
06-07-2006, 07:17 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (backpurge)
Well I guess I proved my point then, that you cant read or just might be retarded. Im pretty sure I didnt ask if you knew the difference. I was informing you and the other 75% on the forum that didnt graduate the 2nd grade (because your mom decided she would sell herself for crack while being pregnant with you) that it really is lose, and not loose.
Sorry I had to also
Oh and even someone with a 2nd grade edumacation like yourself can figure out how to use the spell check button. So please dont epitomize yourself as the town jackass, ok pumpkin?
Sorry I had to also
Oh and even someone with a 2nd grade edumacation like yourself can figure out how to use the spell check button. So please dont epitomize yourself as the town jackass, ok pumpkin?
06-07-2006, 07:53 PM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (backpurge)
HP/L is not for bragging rights... Backpurge, I see you do tuning in your sig yet you don't show concern about this number. Are you going to start ripping my Integra engine to 500WHP on pump gas if I ever asked you to tune my car? lol
HP/L and TQ/L is the number you use to determine what is safe on a certain octane rating with a certain static compression ratio. This number also tells a lot about how much air and fuel is crammed into a given space.
HP/L and TQ/L is a fixed number, which is equal among ALL CYLINDERS. This is a key comparison in which a similarity could be found between the two engines. And let me remind you, it does not mean the car is faster. It means per displacement, the engine is producing more power which directly relates to how highly strung the engine is.
Afterwards, you look at HP or TQ per cylinder. This tells you how much stress each rod, each crank journal, or each piston is facing. Why would I bring up a 420WHP Honda being daily driveable? Because for a V8 to go through the same amount of stress as the 4 cyl, it HAS to be producing roughly the same HP/L or HP/cyl to produce some useable comparison. That means the LS1 is going to be pushing roughly 1300 RWHP (HP/L) or 840 RWHP (HP/cyl) to match a 420 WHP 4-cyl in terms of stress.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by backpurge »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No one really gives a expletive about HP/Liter except for people with a slow *** car who want to have an excuse to use when they loose to a car with more displacement. The truth hurts, I know.
And last time I checked you can daily drive an LS1 with just heads/cam and make 400+ rwhp. Saying that at a minimum you need 1300 +rwhp on LS1 car to be the equivilent of a 400+ whp Civic is a joke, right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's pointless when you compare a 420 WHP 5.7L V8 and a 420 WHP 1.8L 4 cyl. Where's the common comparison? Why don't we say that three B-series engines @ 14 psi is going to make more power than one LS1 V8 engine? Really, it's that stupid.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by backpurge »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
B. Stock for stock... what's faster, a LS1 car or a B-series car? Yeah, thought so. Now, 14 psi on LS1 or 14 psi on a B-series car, what's faster. Again, thought so.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A V8 @ XX psi and a 4-cyl @ xx psi tells you nothing. You forgot to mention all the important details such as CFM, turbine flow, compressor flow vs pressure ratio, etc.. Basically what you've said is noob stuff.
You need to read this thread about VE, airflow CFM and PSI, and how it all relates to each other:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1633516
You got so carried away into the discussion... Listen to 95GSRTT, he's right. I never said which engine is faster. It's stress we're talking about. Read the first post to remind yourself so I don't have to get into a pissing match.
HP/L and TQ/L is the number you use to determine what is safe on a certain octane rating with a certain static compression ratio. This number also tells a lot about how much air and fuel is crammed into a given space.
HP/L and TQ/L is a fixed number, which is equal among ALL CYLINDERS. This is a key comparison in which a similarity could be found between the two engines. And let me remind you, it does not mean the car is faster. It means per displacement, the engine is producing more power which directly relates to how highly strung the engine is.
Afterwards, you look at HP or TQ per cylinder. This tells you how much stress each rod, each crank journal, or each piston is facing. Why would I bring up a 420WHP Honda being daily driveable? Because for a V8 to go through the same amount of stress as the 4 cyl, it HAS to be producing roughly the same HP/L or HP/cyl to produce some useable comparison. That means the LS1 is going to be pushing roughly 1300 RWHP (HP/L) or 840 RWHP (HP/cyl) to match a 420 WHP 4-cyl in terms of stress.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by backpurge »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No one really gives a expletive about HP/Liter except for people with a slow *** car who want to have an excuse to use when they loose to a car with more displacement. The truth hurts, I know.
And last time I checked you can daily drive an LS1 with just heads/cam and make 400+ rwhp. Saying that at a minimum you need 1300 +rwhp on LS1 car to be the equivilent of a 400+ whp Civic is a joke, right?
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It's pointless when you compare a 420 WHP 5.7L V8 and a 420 WHP 1.8L 4 cyl. Where's the common comparison? Why don't we say that three B-series engines @ 14 psi is going to make more power than one LS1 V8 engine? Really, it's that stupid.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by backpurge »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
B. Stock for stock... what's faster, a LS1 car or a B-series car? Yeah, thought so. Now, 14 psi on LS1 or 14 psi on a B-series car, what's faster. Again, thought so.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A V8 @ XX psi and a 4-cyl @ xx psi tells you nothing. You forgot to mention all the important details such as CFM, turbine flow, compressor flow vs pressure ratio, etc.. Basically what you've said is noob stuff.
You need to read this thread about VE, airflow CFM and PSI, and how it all relates to each other:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1633516
You got so carried away into the discussion... Listen to 95GSRTT, he's right. I never said which engine is faster. It's stress we're talking about. Read the first post to remind yourself so I don't have to get into a pissing match.
06-07-2006, 08:30 PM
#21
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (Soccerking3000)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">leave it to tony to stay above the asshats 
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06-08-2006, 12:24 AM
#23
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haha you guys are funny..
but really.. the slowest stock ls1 powered car is probably still faster then the fastest stock bseries car
either way who cares.. we are compairing apples to bowling *****
but really.. the slowest stock ls1 powered car is probably still faster then the fastest stock bseries car
either way who cares.. we are compairing apples to bowling *****
06-08-2006, 01:02 AM
#24
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Re: (Zakar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Zakar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">haha you guys are funny..
but really.. the slowest stock ls1 powered car is probably still faster then the fastest stock bseries car
either way who cares.. we are compairing apples to bowling *****</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not faster than the Ariel Atom though, but aren't we comparing oranges to moth ***** here Let's stick with "stress" within an engine and the tech involved. What you've posted is practically pointless.
but really.. the slowest stock ls1 powered car is probably still faster then the fastest stock bseries car
either way who cares.. we are compairing apples to bowling *****</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not faster than the Ariel Atom though, but aren't we comparing oranges to moth ***** here
Let's stick with "stress" within an engine and the tech involved. What you've posted is practically pointless.
06-08-2006, 01:03 AM
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Re: Argument of boosted 4's .vs. 8's (b16sedan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16sedan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tony, isn't it like 3:30 AM right now and you're online? Do you ever sleep, lol?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wednesday night meets, just came back from some runs... I have some Red Bull ready for breakfast tomorrow morning
Wednesday night meets, just came back from some runs... I have some Red Bull ready for breakfast tomorrow morning