Mase

Full-race and myself, as well as others, for quite some time now have been continuously providing technical information to further educate the members of Honda-Tech on not only Forced Induction related expertise, but more importantly and rarity, Manifold design, Metal and Materials characterization, as well as many other topics of conversation. Many courses in the Engineering program have been completed and when this expertise is put forth to a web forum such as Honda-Tech, its really quite frustrating when actions of malevolence corrupt the HT forums.

I think its more importantly directly correlated from geoff's point of view, but when someone spends so much time on research and development, then to be exploited, slandered, and then tried to be out done, its a pretty frustrating matter. There arent many Engineers on this board, I am currently studying ME at the University of Florida, but I'll admit, I dont know everything in my field of studies, being that I am only half way through my degree, but I even get frustrated when falsified and corrupt information is spread throughout a webforum such as this.

Geoff knows a great amount more than I do, and has spent more time into his studies. He knows pretty much all he can in the field such as his, and when people say he's copied the kook's manifold and what not, people dont realize, he researched countless hours on the subject, and perfected the design, whereas other manifold fabricators, I wont name names, just start throwing together metal, and call it just as good.

Do you think any of us have to post technical information on Honda-tech? It would save a lot of time if we never did.

We could just post what we needed, I mean hell, my car got stolen, I dont get much out of Honda-tech anymore, but I continue to add my share of knowledge, sometimes not in the nicest matter, but a person can only take so much BS, before they get short tempered.

So I think I speak for myself, as well as geoff when i say this, but we'll now let HT be infected with cooked-up, inaccurate posts and ideas from ignoramus and ignorant members of Honda-tech.

We'll just sit back, shake our heads, and watch the mental defective people take over.


Mase

P.S.
Full-Race will continue to manufacture and sale the best products, and serve our customers with the same great customer service as before, however instead of spending the time posting and getting us no where but frustrated, we will use that time to further excel the Full-Race company.

Muad'Dib

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Full-race and myself, as well as others, for quite some time now have been continuously providing technical information to further educate the members of Honda-Tech on not only Forced Induction related expertise, but more importantly and rarity, Manifold design, Metal and Materials characterization, as well as many other topics of conversation. Many courses in the Engineering program have been completed and when this expertise is put forth to a web forum such as Honda-Tech, its really quite frustrating when actions of malevolence corrupt the HT forums.

I think its more importantly directly correlated from geoff's point of view, but when someone spends so much time on research and development, then to be exploited, slandered, and then tried to be out done, its a pretty frustrating matter. There arent many Engineers on this board, I am currently studying ME at the University of Florida, but I'll admit, I dont know everything in my field of studies, being that I am only half way through my degree, but I even get frustrated when falsified and corrupt information is spread throughout a webforum such as this.

Geoff knows a great amount more than I do, and has spent more time into his studies. He knows pretty much all he can in the field such as his, and when people say he's copied the kook's manifold and what not, people dont realize, he researched countless hours on the subject, and perfected the design, whereas other manifold fabricators, I wont name names, just start throwing together metal, and call it just as good.

Do you think any of us have to post technical information on Honda-tech? It would save a lot of time if we never did.

We could just post what we needed, I mean hell, my car got stolen, I dont get much out of Honda-tech anymore, but I continue to add my share of knowledge, sometimes not in the nicest matter, but a person can only take so much BS, before they get short tempered.

So I think I speak for myself, as well as geoff when i say this, but we'll now let HT be infected with cooked-up, inaccurate posts and ideas from ignoramus and ignorant members of Honda-tech.

We'll just sit back, shake our heads, and watch the mental defective people take over.


Mase

P.S.
Full-Race will continue to manufacture and sale the best products, and serve our customers with the same great customer service as before, however instead of spending the time posting and getting us no where but frustrated, we will use that time to further excel the Full-Race company. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont often chime in on this but I do read these threads in order to gain more knowledge on things about this matter. I certainly have to agree with Mase on this. He has a good knowledge on the matter of fabricating manifold and the properties involved in them. I certainly have learned a lot from listening to him about this. It is also difficult for me to grab more knowledge from folks perfecting someting than the folks actually MAKING it from scratch. Being an engineer myself I have a better time in undstanding what people like Mase and other engineers have to say about matters like this. Props to the folks out there giving positive feedback to the forum and to the folks out there corrupiting the site with terrible information.

Peace!

Tinker219

Even though I most likely own one of the companies that "wont be named", I see FRs point. Every time FR introduces a new product, by 5 posts, someone is ripping on them, and it just turns into a big mess.
Most people think that because we are competitors, we are enemies. This is NOT the case. The employees of FR and I communicate often, shoot the ****, and get eachothers opinions on ideas, etc.
Its too bad it has come to this. FR's knowledge and cutting edge quality will be missed on HT.
Good luck in your guys' future

Overblown-Teg

The boy bands said it best "bye bye bye"

laughinxxx

I used to get irritated when people said that I was giving out inaccurate info about what you can and can't do with nitrous kits. I'd get mad and leave the forums for a couple of days until that thread died down. After thinking about it, this was pretty damn immature of me. If someone doesn't believe or trust my experience and suggestions that's fine by me.
As far as I'm concerned there are three types of nitrous setups: the first type is haphazardly put together and runs rich as hell, the second type is also put haphazardly together but it runs lean as hell and blows the motor, and the third setup is done correctly and reaches its full potential.
I'll laugh at the ones that pop their motors and beat the ones who only make 30 extra hp off of an 80 shot.

I'd suggest that you grow some thicker skin and stick around, but it's up to you.

Edit: also after seeing DIRep's engine bay I'd say that anyone that bashes on FR is utterly insane. There may be better a product out there, but if there is it's not by much.

earl

In my case, H-T is about giving back to a sport and technology I love.
It is sometimes hard to stay above the drama and bs posted by a few. I would urge Mase, Geoff, Javier and anyone one else affected to continue to post and not let a few malcontents drive them away. On the other hand, there are differences of opinions by intelligent people and this is a great forum to come together and air these differences in a scientific fashion. Even if there is no common ground found, everyone can learn and make their own choices based on the facts you bring to the forum.

turbologist

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">P.S.
Full-Race will continue to manufacture and sale the best products, and serve our customers with the same great customer service as before, however instead of spending the time posting and getting us no where but frustrated, we will use that time to further excel the Full-Race company. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats too bad that it had to come to this...It just seems as if people add to the fire when either one you guys (FFGEOFF, TINKER) post....Sometimes people like to start **** and other times they are ignorant to that fact that the question they ask, "whats the best manifold?" calls out the manufacturer to say why his/ her manifold is the best...This in turn offends the competing manufacturer and starts an argument of why my **** is better than yours..

This will not end and you guys should not let some idiots with idiotic questions/ post discourage your from helping out others and at the same time promoting your business...

We are all hear to learn...

Hybrid Invasion

hey, i've been sick of this bullshit for quite some time, which is why I just stopped posting tech info on the things I know. I don't blame you one bit.

BROOD

As an engineer in the automotive field I agree but I also feel that the collective sharing of knowledge spurs the new, innovative ideas/technologies.
As new technologies (which can be any auto part, tuning, design, etc) become the "norm" it forces new thoughts and methods.

Personally I always find the tech-heavy posts the most desirable. Materials (metals and composites) are my main engineering interests. I like reading over what others have experienced (example Geoff's thread about manifold materials)
I hope you guys stick around.

..........so maybe I am just a geeky dork with all my fluid dynamics and strengths books but the tech knowledge is the interesting stuff


Modified by SLPR at 12:00 PM 7/21/2003

ion_four

Umm...wow, I hope that made you feel better as your probably preaching to the choir and it makes little difference...is everyone supposed to beg you to keep sharing now? I'm sure have contributed alot of good knowledge and could continue to do so in the future, but how is this more mature that what you claim people have done to you and Geoff? It seems to me that this is the antithesis of productivity, so way-to-go Personally, I would just ignore nay-sayers and strive to make the board better.

Boostfed

If Geoff gets up and Mase gets up we will all get up and leave it will be ANARCHY! (Breakfast Club) Boostfed will post something useful and intelligent when he gets home from work. But I do not want to lose some of the most technical and helpful people on this board because of a few idiots runing it for everyone else. Most people come to Honda-Tech because it is just that "TECH"! So keep it real and stop posting BS in every Full Race, Tinker and SuperT/Racegurlie thread!!!!!!!!!! Thanks.

int3gra

as i stated in the other manifold forum, FFgeoff spends countless hours at engineering libraries to make his products better. that is why i always love reading his technical posts and value his opinion. I don't know about the kooks manifold comment ppl are always throwing at him, there are only sooo many ways u can make an equal length manifold, designs may look the same, but hell, he puts a lot of time into making those and welding it properly. and i'm gonna risk saying this but, i believe he FIRST introduced the thick piping he uses, and did a comparison to the other thin material........as Mase said, this info doesnt need to be given out, especially from someone who just opened up his own company, with all the copycats out there, who havent spent any time in Research and Development. Lets take the example of jimfab.....we know he helped him give some pointers to jimfab....FFgeoff could have turned around and made his own bars, but he didnt.

i FFgeoff and his posts will be missed, i think he is doing the right thing. I hope he will be around to answer IMs whenever he can thou This way he has more time to R&D the products we trust under our hoods.

mos

These types of forums can be the, uh, double edged sword. Exposure for your company to thousands of consumers, without any advertising expense. And with that comes the bad stuff. As a company, especially a large one, I would never post on a message board. Too many problems.

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So I think I speak for myself, as well as geoff when i say this, but we'll now let HT be infected with cooked-up, inaccurate posts and ideas from ignoramus and ignorant members of Honda-tech. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You mean it hasn't been like that for years now? HT has been a laughingstock on serious minded forums for a number of years. Just because this is the biggest Honda soapbox around to sling product from doesn't mean its not already a soap opera.

I share my knowledge with anyone who asks for it, I don't care if you like me, I don't need my *** kissed for it, and I don't put up whiney little posts because my fevered little ego isn't being appeased. IMO, there is nothing more tedious than a schoolboy with a textbook... some of the schoolboys on HT are trying to apply their book learning to the real world, and learning quite a lot for it, but none of them knows enough to start patting themselves on the back yet - least of all you.

Personally, I'm still defining the areas of my ignorance, which is far more important than some things I know which 99% of Honda enthusiasts don't seem to.

Bnjmn

What other "serious minded" forums are you talking about??

fredtoast

H-T is just a microcosm of the real world. If you can't learn to live with dumbasses then you better find a deep cave to spend the rest of your life in. Just be confident in your knowledge and bide your time. If you leave now you will never be able to say "I told you so."

FuzzyGreen

&lt;history&gt; -Been reading Honda-tech since the original mailing list back in 94/95 when Weyland Jung was the fastest guy around with his 100 shot 13 second integra. I've Built up three cars trying all three routes (NA/hybrid/turbo). I have gained tons of knowledge here. &lt;/history&gt;

I think it is a little arrogant to make this post and also quite sensitive (like my wife on PMS). Be a man and ignore the idiots. Hell some ****** mod changed my info to "spoon fed" when I asked too many questions. Did I leave?

I appreciate all your input/knowledge and hope you change your mind.

legendboy

Ya, I see your point but it sounds like you guys are getting caught up in the little soap yourselves. Making a post like this proves it. Boards like this are for discusion and debate, sharing of opinions. I hate people who keep everything a secret. Knowledge is for sharing, plain and simple.

SIXTYdashONE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by legendboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ya, I see your point but it sounds like you guys are getting caught up in the little soap yourselves. Making a post like this proves it. Boards like this are for discusion and debate, sharing of opinions. I hate people who keep everything a secret. Knowledge is for sharing, plain and simple.</TD></TR></TABLE>

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
HT has been a laughingstock on serious minded forums for a number of years.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The only other serious forum I read is TheOldOne.
I, also, would like to know about these forums that says H-T is a laughing stock.

IloveNewt

Hey man, i agree there r a lot of dumbasses and ********* on this board, but there are a lot of other good guys as well. I love input from people like you and it helps me greatly. Its great to see great minds coming together and helping others out.
You engineering major guys gotta help us business major guys out mang! haha...

But for real, honda tech has helped me out a lot, the sharing of knowledge is a wonderful thing.

chad

some say that the internet is information at your finger tips....

i say the internet is misinformation at your finger tips...

AND NO THAT IS NOT POINTED AT ANYONE in this thread....i'm just agreeing with the originator of this post....so many people like to bash and jump on a bandwagon that is going in the wrong direction.

I only try to give knowledge to someone who i think will use it.....

take for instance the EG forum....so many people ask what engine should i run, etc.....i no longer respond because i have yet to have someone take my advice....and yes a b20 non vtec with a b16 tranny will ROLL a b16 with same mods up too about 110.....

twkdCD595

I would have to agree with the statement about this being just like the real world... this forum is a tech forum (which means debating is gonna be here naturally).

Not every person will anyways agree on any one thing... not possible... we dont live in a perfect world.

I see it as competition to full race when someone else posts something testing their conclusions... which leads to better products on the market. Competition is always gonna be there... you just cant get consumed by every comment thats made regarding full race.

If no one ever make comments, questions, or criticisms then how will people know it is not just another good looking manifold on the market.

It is human nature and the real world for people to be like they are... I say dont let the bs get in you head, it only lets the critics and what not win.


Modified by twkdCD595 at 4:51 PM 7/21/2003

intekragsr

I see your point of view, and I give Full-Race all the respect for their great product. But:

I view the original post as quite arrogant. In other words, the post sounds like you expect people to bow down to full-race for their achievements, and when your validation is not served, you decide to give up the throne. Selfish? In my eyes, yes.

This is an open and exposed board, and you have to come here knowing there will be a difference of opinon. The best way to learn is to have arguements. Its the mature ones who can sit back and sift the **** from gold and take "things for what they are." I dont want to sift **** and end up with only ****.

I dont see how you can "sit-back" and be "humored" by mis-informed enthusiasts who are here to learn about what we love so much. I dont sit here on honda-tech for hours every single day for no reason. Yes, I have had my old car stolen too. It was stolen 2 days after I spent my 4 years saving fund for my first turbo kit on my first car. I worked with blood sweat and tears to get that thing together. I still came back because I know there are many people with the same heart for the sport......... and its disapointing to see a well respected company fall down to a few ignorant people.

Sorry if my post sounds harsh, but the original was bitter, so I need to let my bitterness out.

quikB18B

Someting i have noticed lately is whenever there is a thread advertising or comparing two products it seems as though the vendors start taking low blows at thier competitors to win businesses. Sometimes It feels like its election week in here. I agree to the competitiveness produces companies to bring out better parts, but i believe their has to be a better way to do it. Maybe if a certain company makes a thread about one of thier products thier competitor is not allowed to post anything negative about the other product. Then you have the comparison threads. Here the vendors/companies can give good info on thier product helping the consumer make a better desicion. With the combination of facts and experience this makes for a good tech thread

In this sport you get what you pay for and i dont think that companies have to fight over advertisement/sales to sell thier product. Products have been proven to be "better" than others so sometimes it depends on the financial situation. I for example can't afford a full-race manifold so im going with inlinepro becasue it's been proven to work and it meets my budget. I do agree with mase that I hate when people post bs info on the net and start flame wars ect... I wish this all could stop because i think its great that companies/vendors have grown to post here on honda-tech and share thier knwoledge with all of us.