Planning on replacing stock MAP sensor.

Ive found K-Tuned and Omni power 4 bar MAP sensor but what other good brands are out there?

 

Hondata if using the stock throttle body location.

Dephi/GM 4 bar map sensor. If you relocate it. Even Haltech takes a generic GM 4-bar and re-badge it.

Make sure you actually need a 4-bar map sensor. Those are good to 44.1psi of boost pressure, while even the 3-bar is good to over 29.4psi of boost pressure. And there is just as much availability.

 

Im using Hondata but how is a GM MAP sensor going to fit on a Honda engine?

 

We've done it before. It's just not a stock location fit. We use a sealed plate to cover the opening at the TB, and clip/wire the pigtail of the GM 3bar map sensor with the map sensor located on firewall. Even Omnipower makes a GM 'knock-off'.
Older school method. But I still use it on my other car. I don't like anything except OEM sensors whenever possible. But that's just me being a snob.




Great write-up on how to do it..

Video How-To

GM 3bar map sensor install on Honda

 

As stated, Hondata makes one that is plug and play. I did have one of theirs fail about a year after purchase and they replaced it for free. To Shodan's point, I believe most of the aftermarket sensors are made in China, and quality may suffer.

 

That's why I didn't bother with them in the 1st place. From their like of stability. It wasn't worth the convenience of "plug & play"

 

[QUOTE=TheShodan;52557843]We've done it before. It's just not a stock location fit. We use a sealed plate to cover the opening at the TB, and clip/wire the pigtail of the GM 3bar map sensor with the map sensor located on firewall. Even Omnipower makes a GM 'knock-off'.
Older school method. But I still use it on my other car. I don't like anything except OEM sensors whenever possible. But that's just me being a snob.



I understand your point that your now getting an OEM sensor. First off what vehicle does this GM sensor come off of and how do we know that it is not also made in CHIna?
That is the reason you using the GM 3 bar instead of an aftermarket 3 bar MAP right?

Second, the stock Honda MAP sensor is right on top of throttle body this video shows him installing it but the vacuum reference is now now being captured in the same spot as the stock MAP sensor was. The stock MAP is close to the entire relative air stream entering the intake manifold while this guys new reference I guess is hooked onto a vacuum reference on the intake plenum instead of the throttle body. How will this new location NOT make a difference in how the MAP sensor will read the airstream?

 

Because it's a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor, and not a MAS (Mass Airflow Sensor).

 

There are literally hundreds of GM vehicles this came off of from the late 90s-2010s. There is a standard part number for both 3-bar and 4-bar sensors.
3-bars are ‎213-3205 749-7316, and others. From the Chevy Impala to the WS6 Camaro, they're still in production even now. DIYautotuner.com sells the Omnipower ones. :-(
But the best company is AC Delco to get those. You can even find them on Amazon.

AC Delco GM 3Bar Map Sensor

AC Delco GM 3Bar Map Sensor

Trust me. This is a Delphi / Aptiv Technologies. No China affiliate for these products (except Omnipower). It's in Automation alley in Troy. I'm minutes from them, Borg-Warner, Continental Tire, and even the old Recaro manufacturer locations.

That's why. Location of the sensor itself isn't what makes this work.

 

Sorry boss but:

Business Overview

-The Delphi Group launched its business in China in 1993. The company has established 3 technical centers and 18 production bases in China, with more than 25,100 employees and more than 2,200 engineers in China.

-Delphi Automotive Systems (China) Holding Co., Ltd. was established as the Group's Chinese headquarters in Shanghai in 1999.

-In December 2017, Delphi officially became becoming two independent companies, Aptiv PLC and Delphi Technologies PLC. Aptiv PLC will continue Delphi’s efforts in high-value electronics, smart mobility,connected services and autonomous driving. Delphi Technologies, whose main business would be powertrain business and aftermarket business was officially listed on the same day as an independent listed company. It is reported that the Aptiv’s sales in 2018 were USD 14.435 billion, of which the sales in Asia were USD 3.916 billion, mainly contributed by the Chinese market.

-Aptiv's sales in 2020 were USD 13.06 billion, a year-on-year decrease of 9%. Sales in the Asia-Pacific region were $3.898 billion.


Like I said, I work deeply in the automotive business and work with the big 3, Mercedes, and BMW. GM (and all really) relies heavily on Chinese parts. As well DAS and Aptiv Tech is part owned by China and has numerous plants there as well. Is this exact MAP sensor supplied by China? I cannot say. But I can say that most car electronics from these companies come from China first, then Taiwan, Ukraine, and Mexico.

 

I’m not sure if you have the stock MAP sensor or the Hondata one, but if you have the Hondata sensor, you might as well leave it as long as it’s not faulty.
As for fitment, the GM sensor can work. In the video link provided, it shows a long vaccuum source from the intake manifold, apparently. Use as short of a hose as possible, although since it’s sensing pressure, it’s just about instantaneous.
If it helps, I’ve used a GM brand MAP sensor with no issues. I’m not sure if it was AC Delco or not, but it could have been Chinese made.

 

That’s an interesting point. I wonder how much Honda itself is outsourcing to China now. On my 2022 Civic it said that the engine and transmission were “origin” in Japan, and the car was assembled in, “Yorii-Machi, Saitama, Japan” I wonder about all the other parts being sourced from China or somewhere else like Thailand or even another third work place. Although, China isn’t that bad of quality now though if directed by Honda, in my opinion. It says US and Canadian parts are 60% but,”parts content does not include final assembly, distribution or other non parts costs.”

 

Your 2022 Civic is mainly Chinese supplied and Japanese built. It honestly isn't much better than a 2022 GM. China and Taiwan are the world's main automotive supplier of electronics, this much I know. The conductors that all automotive suppliers are scrambling for are supplied by Taiwan. This is a major reason that China is looking at Taiwan right now and I can tell you for sure that all automotive companies are continuously having discussions about what will happen if China invades Taiwan. Currently there is no alternative source that can supply the demand and cars are being parked across the world with no conductors. OEMs cannot afford to keep shutting down due to the shortage and are parking cars everywhere.
Drive by the Charleston, SC port and look at all the BMWs. Cedar Point is leasing property to GM to park cars. Alabama Adventures is the parking grounds for Mercedes. Also discussion is being made whether to send the cars to the sales lot without the conductors and install them at the dealerships.

One thing I personally am curious about is all of these 2020-21 cars if and when we do get conductors how will they be sold? They will be 1-2 model years old but technically "new" still. Anyways, mostly all current electronics for automobile companies come out of these two countries. Even old sensors that used to be made internally have been out sourced to China. However what you should know is that these are not Chinese owned companies. They are American, German, Japanese owned companies building plants in China. You will have a hand full of American, German, and Japanese white collars overseeing a Chinese operated plant.

The main issue with quality from now vs the 90's and earlier is simply demand and greed. The demand has rocketed through the roof, Chinese operated companies have turned the Automotive supplying business into a cut throat under bidding war. Company A throws in a bid of "Hey Honda I can supply you these parts for $5 a piece." then just so company B can survive through the next model run they throw in a bid of $2 a part. Honda will maximize profit and go with the lower bidding company and now it is up to the low bidding company to supply the parts, make pennies on the dollar just to show profit to the board, and make it to the next run. Its a rinse and repeat of this.

This is how your new cars are such pieces of ****. Also if you want the best car possible then buy the new model as soon as they come out. Throughout the model run OEMs will cut corners and take away details and features that you might not know but still sell the car at the same price.

Want to know something really interesting? Cars soon will start coming out with features that you pay for as you use them! This is currently being discussed now. So for example if you decide to never use your heated or air conditioned seats you will never pay for that option. But if you use them there will be a charge sent to you for using that option. This is being sold to the consumer as a "saving" but in reality it will be a massive sales boost for the OEM. I honestly don't know the full details of this, as it is in it's infancy. But this is coming, OEMs just need to figure out all the details...

I can't go into too much details as I'd like to keep my pay and job. But I can tell you that you can think all you want that your parts are superior because they are made in Japan or made in USA. But very very very few automotive parts are made outside of China, Taiwan, or Mexico. If so it is 1 of 2 things...1: Its made in a 3rd world country or 2: Its a screw. Due to weight and cost savings it is cheaper to make screws locally.

One thing is 100%. You will never, ever, ever see build quality and reliability of cars from the 1990's or earlier, especially Japanese.

However Toyota holds a completely different standard and thinking. It is called the "Toyota way".

 

Thanks for the reply StopSign32v. Lots of useful info.
As for the OP, I wouldn’t mind if the part was made in China.

 

I wouldnt use a hondata map sensor. Ive seen a bunch fail at the worst times.

I have been using a gm 3 bar map for over ten years and no issues. I recently picked up an aem 4 bar map sensor only to replace the vacuum hose and attach the sensor with a proper 1/8 npt to -4 an adapter to the manifold then a line routing away from the engine bay to the aem sensor. This will get rid of a potential vacuume hose popping off at the sensor since it is only a barb connection.
Im doing the same for oil pressure fuel pressure and coolant pressure.
If you end up doing the gm map sensor just leave the stock sensor in place no need to make a plate to block off the port.

 

Some where there was a thread with someone saying you have to retune Hondata in order to use a 3 or 4 bar map sensor. I thought if you got a 4 bar there was an option to just tell Hondata system what you have and it would calibrate it correctly.

 

You'll be changing the resolution of the fuel and ign maps. Itll be close but sill still have some gaps thatll need to be retuned.
When you select the 3 or 4 bar map option all it does is rescale the map. Download the software and mess with it youll notice what it does.

 

So theres no way to change to a 3 or 4 bar MAP without having to retune these gaps?

ALso Im not sure what you mean by change the resolution of the fuel and ignition tables.

 

Theres about 10 columns Each way. Once you change from a 3 bar with a max of about 29 psi to a 4 bar with a max of about 40 the resolution of each column changes where you had 60 percent fuel for 15 psi itll be off since you wont have a 15psi column anymore. It wont be too dar off but wont be perfect.


rpm. Vac-boost
-20. -10. 0 3 8 10 14 19 22
500
1000
1500
2000

 

Noted. And thank you for the update. This was a switch from 2019. But I guess the underlying question is. If it's from China, and the QC standards stay the same. Will it matter? Perhaps I'm lucky because I kept all of the American made ones that still work. I've found the whole "Chinese Made = automatically bad" concept rather silly. There's inexpensive, and then there is "CHEAP". .

I still trust those over the Omnipower simply because of the ISO standards that even the Chinese made ones have to have in order to run on US Roads...

 

Think what you're saying now. The reference for each column then changes so the fuel value will change as well?

In my case Im not planning on turning boost up yet so plan to just keep running 11 psi. But someone said thats getting close to limitation of the stock MAP sensor so it maybe a good idea to get at least a 3 bar sensor?

As far as the values it sounds like you should just be able to interpolate the values that are off instead of retuning the entire thing.

 

NO

The mentality of China = Crap is NOT valid. In fact the Chinese people in general are much more disciplined with their work ethic and overall general lives than the majority of Americans will be in the next 100 years probably. Here is a great analogy for you, and sorry for getting off topic here but think about this, you go to McDonalds, Burger King, or hell even Chick-Fil-A and tell them what you want. You are the customer and you tell them directly what you want. You pay for what you want. And then you go to sit down and what you get isn't what you ordered. But somehow we have the mentality that Made in America = Good. If you really want to know if what you buy will be crap or not you need not look and further than if the company is more concerned with maximum profit or making the consumer happy. China cuts a lot of corners, this is true. However you simply cannot say that if it is made in China it is simply crap. That is flat out ignorant. Now if you aren't ok with giving money to China vs America, that is something completely different.

One last fun fact for China. Each Chinese worker is assigned a western name by their company. They will be the only person in that company with this specific name. But it makes it so funny when we have Chinese auditors come to visit and in such broken English with a strong Asian accent they will say "Hello, my name is Bob." "Hello, my name is Sarah."

 

I think you mis-interpreted my statement . I was actually agreeing with you.

 

No I know, I was just explaining more as to how you were right.

 

Exactly you could do that. I never said it would be completely off.