Sonny

My buddy has got a very interesting project. He's working on a single propeller airplane. The motor is shot and they want to replace it. They want to use a Honda B series engine due to the fact that:

1) They are incredibly reliable if treated well
2) They can withstand incredible abuse
3) Parts availability

Basically what will happen is that we'll use a B18C longblock. A gear reduction box will be coupled to the crank and then the prop will be coupled to the output side of that box.

Here's what he wants:

1) 300 hp during takeoff
2) 200 hp during cruise
3) 6500 rpm rev limit

The rev limit needs to stay low because of issues with the gear reduction box.

I was thinking of something like this:

1) Brand new ITR shortblock from Acura
2) Brand new ITR head from Acura
3) Hondata w/big injectors
4) Not sure yet about air-to-air or water-to-air IC.

This engine will NOT be sleeved. Although it is rarely a problem these days, having the sleeves sink while in flight could be a fatal disaster.

The turbo would have to be something a little different. It would need to make most of its power between 2500 and 5500 rpm. That means, it would need to spool at around 2000 and have full boost by 2500.

Keep in mind that they will be running aviation gas....not 91 octane.

What do you think...can it be done?

Sonny

Jared

with the low redline and torque needed for a gear reduction box, sounds like you'd be better off with a B20 or B18b.

SIXTYdashONE

Sure it can be done, but forget about the Hondata

VTC_CiViC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jared &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with the low redline and torque needed for a gear reduction box, sounds like you'd be better off with a B20 or B18b.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea I was just thinking of that too. A B20 with a smaller T04B will produce alot of low end, within the range you're looking for.

TurboJesse

i wouldn't trust my motor in the air ....

sporkcrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wouldn't trust my motor in the air ....</TD></TR></TABLE>

I second that, LOL

Sonny

Ron: Forget about Hondata? Hondata is the ONLY system I trust for this application. Most of the time that the plane is in the air, it is cruising and nothing controls a Honda motor better in closed loop than a Honda ECU.

If you're suggesting another system, I'd like to hear your reasons. All of the bells and whistles of most of them are not needed.

Jared: Displacement is definitely an advantage, but I'm a bit wary of the stock B20 sleeves and boost. The GS-R/ITR blocks have proven themselves be damn near bulletproof. Also remember that this setup is running aviation gas, so 11:1 or 12:1 compression may definitely be a possibility.


Sonny

SIXTYdashONE

Ive heard this has beeen done before, ill see if i can find the link to some pages ive read on this already. I would trust a honda motor in the sky. Probably safer in the air then on the ground

Short Round

&lt;-- 90 thousand miles on a bone stock motor except headstuds and its as bulletproof as can be (300 whp 270 tq)

i'd say use a b20/ls too, more torque and power @ lower RPM, vtec motors wont even begin to make power at 6500 rpm rev limit

SIXTYdashONE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sonny &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ron: Forget about Hondata? Hondata is the ONLY system I trust for this application. Most of the time that the plane is in the air, it is cruising and nothing controls a Honda motor better in closed loop than a Honda ECU.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont question the ability of Hondata in a Honda, but i would question it in the air just because although hondata is very reliable, its basically designed to be more of a user friendly and plug and play device in a honda. actually making the harness work in an airplane is a whole different ballpark.

With, Lets say a DFI, Motec or Speedpro, theres many different options that they have (especially MoTec) that can be used for many different variables that may be associated with various aviation equipment. If you have a MoTec stack Screen, you can set it up so the flaps ( i know nothing about aviation jargon, hehe) would come on and go off on a certain altitude or rpm. Many of these options are available through hondata, but many people will tell you some engine management systems have been used in other applications before. Ive heard DFI being used in many different applications other then automobiles or road worthy "machines"

baphomet

Here are some honda engines fitted for air duty:
1st one has teh VTEC p0\/\/3r y0!


Here is a hover craft using one of those engines:




vtec power lol



There is a lot more but you get the idea.
Sonny, are you guys modifying the engine yourselves or buying a pre-built one? I was going to do something similar but couldn't find a kit and didn't know much about the subject - the pre-built (modified) ones are expensive, a modded subaru engine is way cheaper. Good luck with it, let us know how it goes

Sonny

Ron: You brought up some good points. I will run that buy them. As far as I know though, the existing "ECU" for the existing engine controls only the engine. The other things are controlled by a different system...but I'm not entirely sure.

/dev/null: Thanks for the pics! The setup will be completely done by them. The 3 of them are a very talented machining/welding/fabrication outfit. They can make just about anything!

Sonny

JrCRXHF

before i was going to put a honda engin in a plane i would make sure to have two because well i don't really want to die i know the standers that a air plane motor has is higher then a car. but anyway i would go with a AEM or a stand alone like that before a honda ecu i know the ecu with though codes because it reads stuff like the tranny speed and i think that is it but still i don't know if i was trust it.

baphomet

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JrCRXHF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">before i was going to put a honda engine in a plane i would make sure to have two because well i don't really want to die i know the standers that a air plane motor has is higher then a car. but anyway i would go with a AEM or a stand alone like that before a honda ecu i know the ecu with though codes because it reads stuff like the tranny speed and i think that is it but still i don't know if i was trust it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
honda engines in the air are proven, so are subaru engines - great alternative to the Lycoming O-360 (180-hp) engine, and others and is way less expensive, esp. the subaru - honda would be to, built in house as they are doing. I really wish I was in on a project like this - someday

MiraiZ

scarey! I know that flat-4's and rotarys are air-worthy, but inline 4 with VTEC??

Phoenix GSR

if you want displacement but factory reliability, what about the dart block? being a new casting like the stock one, it should have the same reliability, but you can get it in 2.0. I would also assume the price would be comparable, if you are buying the stock one from the dealership... just a thought

Accord94DX

i would never put my life on a turbo honda engine.

wear a chute

nevin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Accord94DX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would never put my life on a turbo honda engine.

wear a chute</TD></TR></TABLE>

I second that LOL

Trak_Day

Cant say i would trust a honda motor in the air, LOL. Especially a B20vtec, too risky. Good luck

SEFIxCivic

as much as i like honda turbo engines... i would never never trust it enough to power an airplane. last time i looked at a nice ultra light, the drivetrain was built as robust as possible. meaning it was a naturally aspirated, air cooled flat six, w/ a mechanical fuel injection system, running a dual plug per cylinder, twin redundant ignition system.

kpt4321

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sonny &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ron: Forget about Hondata? Hondata is the ONLY system I trust for this application. Most of the time that the plane is in the air, it is cruising and nothing controls a Honda motor better in closed loop than a Honda ECU.
Sonny</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's not going to be in closed loop under full boost, while making 200 hp.

blackANESE

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wouldn't trust my motor in the air ....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hahahaha, but it's true for me too

tony1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MiraiZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">scarey! I know that flat-4's and rotarys are air-worthy, but inline 4 with VTEC?? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not that i'd trust a stock honda motor in the air, but i'd trust it WAY more than a rotary!!!

boosted92

If you want a powerband like that, I suggest going with one of the big boy twin screw blowers. An Autorotor 201CID twin screw blower on a B18B would put out some massive torque all over the powerband. It would be essentially like having a 300+ cube motor on board Rig up a thick air/water intercooler (not hard because you don't have to worry about smashing into the firewall like in a car) and a big heat exchanger fed by a naca duct to keep everything streamlined and you're ready to roll.

SiRkid

lmao..this is sweet and crazy all at once

imagine going down the runway and hearing a nice vtec x over ...ahahha.
sweet.