If antibodies been seeing me post lately its because I'm down to the nitty gritty on my B18c build and am in need of specific answers from people that no.I have been reading these forums for a long time so I no how intelligent some people are on here.
Now for another question.
My previous setup was a gt35r running 555hp on E85,with 1600cc precision injectors.it was very difficult to make idle with those things,however I was informed that bigger injectors with E85 would be beneficial. So now I'm stuck with those things but I'm going to be running 100-108 octane fuel in my system pretty much every day.I heard that will help keep those injectors down to a good idle with that octane.I also think that decreasing my intake air temp would further help idle and also running conditions.I have done that by running an air to water intercooler with a 5 gal,fully insulated aluminum box.insulated to help keep the ice cold.also thought of the idea of using dry ice.any thoughts on that? I no the cooler the air the better shell run.ill only be running it about 300hp on the daily though. Looking for 600+ with a click of a mouse.

 

my car idles just fine on e85, and rc 1000's so maybe its not the injectors that are the issue but rather the tuner and thats set up @25psi and 650 to the wheels

like i said i dont think its the injectors but might be a tuner issue

 

I've been told by my tuner that precision 1600s are a hard injector to tune to idle. Not that it cant be done, it depends heavily on the tuner. He suggested the ID1600s as an alternative as they are a much more consistst injector. I know they come with a hefty price tag ($800-1000 for all four) but well worth the money. I'm running the ID1600s and a 35r on e85 on my b16 shooting for 600+whp. I have yet to be tuned though so I have no real experience with these injectors... I will be tuned in a week or two so I'll let you know how it works out for me :-)

 

i am also getting ready to go b16 bottom with some id1600's and hoping for 800ish myself

 

id's are worth the money for sure

 

Good read on low pulsewidth performance here.

http://www.injectordynamics.com/LowPulseTech.html

And a quick image that will help you understand why the old 1600's are so bad.

 

Hey redline,ive been watching ur posts on ur car man and I have to say your doing an awesome with ur build.I'd like to post pics of my build soon.although I have no pics of the initial tear down.if you guys are looking to push that amount of power from your block I should have no problem getting what I want out of mine.I don't really have the $$ for ID1600s.any input on the dry ice in the water tank?I don't see how it'd be a problem,but then again I always run into a problem.

 

nice chart Tony

 

You want 600+whp and you can't afford injectors?

Are you going to say that you can't afford tuning as well?

 

Maybe you didn't read what I said very well.let me retell it so you can understand,and dont talk to me like moneys so easy to come by either. I am a US Marine,I recently did a 12 month push to Afghanistan and I came back with a little extra in the bank.so let's see here,in the 5 months I've been back,I've bought a car,spent about $5,000 in parts for it(at one time) I also have these things called bills,and frankly I don't get paid much.so yes,as of right now I'm not looking to spend another grand on 4 injectors when I have a set in the car(1600cc in case you didn't read that either) obviously they'll do fine.if the tuner has alot to do with it I think ill be alright.I'm taking it to bisimoto.and with the average price of a tune at about $180 an hour, I don't think its wrong of me to be a little greedy.I still have to have a custom downpipe welded up,some flange welded since I couldn't find a ramhorn exhaust mani in T4, also need my 38mm WG flange welded to it.I still have some more to go.
Sounds to me like you had every penny saved when you built your ride.you didn't run into any issues or anything.that's amazing,maybe you could send me the grand I need for those ID1600's.
ALSO: I'm pretty sure I said my last tune was at 555hp.with the new turbo GTX3582r,and the little extras I don't see why I couldn't make 600+. I don't no about you,but 555 is pretty damn close to 600. You shouldn't worry yourself with my build or my finances buddy.any help is welcomed,but what you said was not help.it was ridicule.no reason for it.

 

what fuel pump are you running

 

I'm using a fuel lab 40402-200 GPH rated at 800 hp.with a summit racing fuel filter.works very well,kinda loud but I'm about to fix that problem with a wrap around fuel pump cover.I'm gonna insulate it so its not as loud.I like it though,everybody thinks its a race car jus cuz the fuel pumps so loud.

 

Love when people bring up "im a us marine", that's fantastic...

Maybe I was a bit too blunt but if you want that nicer idle and a good quality injector, save up and get the ID, or FIC injectors. If not, use some rc1600's until you can afford it.
Make it work. You need the fuel to make that power as Im sure you know.

 

man you can make mid 600 n rc 1000's its there you just need to raise the base and dam near max them out but workable

Bisi is a more than capable tuner, and should be able to do a great job with them injectors man i always heard the 1600 were horrible as well, but you want big power you will need big injectors as well.

go for it, and have fun with it

 

and what the hells that supposed to mean?you think what I do comes easy mother f***ker.u do what I do and still manage to build a 600+hp daily then u can b***ch.I have minimal tools and an even more minimal resources.me bringing up the I'm a us marine was only to help explain the situation I'm in.not to glorify that that's what I do.I'm sure u either love ur job or hate it.and let me tell u I hate mine.I say f**k the marine corps for everything they've done to me.but if I can say one thing,they taught me how to beat little b***ches like you down for sayin some stupid **** like that.obviously you don't appreciate your freedom or anything that I have done for you.cuz like it or not I've actually done something for you...what have you done for me except try and disgrace me by sayin that and showing me your ignorance.these forums are for people who need help,not for people to get on and say stupid **** to other people.especially Honda techs to other techs.maybe your just jealous of me and what's mine,that you don't have and i do.yea,I think ill just tell myself that and rid this forum of you.
Thanks sanman,I'm just gonna run the precisions for now.ill post more pics up when things get back together.I have some now of the initial mach up,but I doubt anyone wants to see those.

 

Its all tuning. I was able to get PTE 1600's to idle at 1000-1100 solid on Crome. It helped tremendously that it was on E85. So depending on what managment your running will determine alot as well. And it idled at a 15.7-16.5 AFR, which is just fine for E85.

 

devil dog... your coming on complaining about idle with 1600cc injectors.... 97CWITR is 100% correct in his response and it is even backed up by the charts that tony posted that clearly show the difference.

the moral to the story is if you want to make 600whp with a good idle you need to save your pennies and get some ID1600's at the minimum... i have seen cars making 600whp with E85 with ID1000's however you would need a fuel pressure regulator to run 100psi base pressure... they cost so much because they are worth it... if you need an example i would say right now your running Windows 2000 on your computer instead of Windows 7 like everyone else... technology advancements...

another thing dont come on here flappin your gums about marine this marine that... being an arrogant ***** can come back and to bite you... take your "argument" to PMs instead of on your thread... The thread in discussion is about injectors and not about your job occupation...

 

I came on here ASKING about injectors,not complaining.and don't devil dog me,you of all people should no.I also stated I hate the marine corps so I'm not flashing my title,just explaining the kind of situation I'm in,there are not that many resources here in 29 palms.
He is right about my injectors bein a pain to idle but it was also proved that I could in fact run the ones I currently have with no problems. I do have a fuel pressure regulator.don't you guys read at all or you just like to try and make people like me feel like I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.I'm the one causing problems but yet you jump in here and make assumptions. Oh,and yes I am running Windows 7. But its not all its cracked up to be.I could run my hondata with Windows 95 just as long as I update drivers and have all the necessary components.you don't absolutely have to have every single brand new product on the market to make a nice car.this is my thread,ill speak of what I want.I came here asking for info,not asking people to **** on my questions and try and make me feel like a complete dumbass.
AGAIN: I will say this one more time as well since some can't seem to get it through their heads about the power I want. I ran 555 last tune,didn't over push her or nothing like that,just felt that was.a.safe number for now.I've upgraded a lot of stuff and wish to push over 600.why are some of yall making it sound like its an impossible task without buying this or buying that.I will NOT be running E85 because its not available in my area yet.I will be running 105 octane race fuel tho.
Anybody else want to try and say I'm wrong,say it.its a free country.but stop and look at the facts first,don't jus jump in with these two and start sayin I have to buy this or that in order to get the power I want.everything inside my block and everything outside is rated to 800 hp.everything.shell do it,I just wanted to replace my turbo and a few other things(my gt35r was old)

 

so if you think they idle bad with e85 when you switch to gas it's going to be a lot worse. Typically I don't think those injectors idle too terribly when you're on e85 because of the extra fuel requirements needed for e85 gets you out of that low pulse width **** spot. If you're going to stay with e85 I'd keep those injectors, if you're going to switch to gas, then I'd think about something else.

 

i am in 29 palms right now myself... the auto hobby shop is right by the commissary... and there are over 10000 marines on this base that i am sure would love to help you including myself...

switching from e85 to (i assume) an unleaded 100+ octane fuel is going to be a HUGE NEGATIVE difference in idle control with your current 1600cc injectors. People are advising you on these injectors for a reason.... i personally am running 1000IDs at 90psi base pressure and have a control idle of 900rpms even with skunk2 pro 1 cams on 93 octane... were not making this stuff up... the ID injectors really are THAT good!

my bigger concern more so than your power output is your plans for controlling the intense heats in the 29 palms area... what kind of fan setup are you running...

what kind of clutch are you using?

if your insulted by me calling you a nickname given to Marines by the Germans when they were destroyed at bellau woods you obviously didnt know what it meant... you definitely threw the "im a marine flag" and windows 7 is better than windows 2000 by far

 

There's a difference when calling someone a devil dog out of respect than out of hostility.I no ID1000s would be perfect,I'm not denying that.I will not delay my build another two months because the cost of new injectors.$1000 ain't chump change.if I had it to spend I would.but for now I have to focus on other aspects.as it was said before,1600cc injectors can be tuned properly to idle,just depends on the tuner. Bisimoto is by far one of the most recognized Honda tuner in the country.I'm sure he can get it done for me.and when money is no problem,ID1000s are my choice.

For the extreme heat problem that we face daily out here,I've chosen to get rid of the air to air intercooler and run an air to water.I have had an alumninum bad made that is about 5gal.it has another box inside about an inch gapped for insulation.and a submerged water pump.I will be running ice daily to ensure no over heating.as well as wrap my exhaust manifold and a turbo wrap.when the time comes and I'm pretty sure it'll come soon.ill be running water/meth as well.with those combination of cooling,I don't think ill have a bit of trouble in this heat.the air to water,the new gtx3582r and my suspension has set me back so I have to manage the next few months so that I can get her finished and taken to the tuner.
Clutch is currently an ACT 4puck. Very grabby and no play.street/strip applications. Thinking of downgrading a bit tho,there's a lot of stop and go here and she dont like that.I need a little play in the pedal too.ill do it after some road/ track time tho.hope this helps.

 

Also,the hobby shop only allows you to do certain things.I need to cut and weld,they told me I had to have there welder do it....then I saw how shitty his wells were.I am a certified welder and can weld almost anything.they won't let you do that there.plus they have a closing time,and I'm usually working til 6 or 7.

 

Not telling you what to do, just want to make a comment.

That gross non linearity in the Bosch 160lb flow vs pulsewidth graph exists, no matter who tunes your car. You can not 'tune it out' or improve it by tuning. No matter who does it, there WILL be major inconsistencies at idle and cruise, any time the fuel flow is in that range.

 

Won't an FJO Driver smooth it out?

 

That test is being driven by a Motec ecu with a proper peak and hold drive circuit. It's worse than that with a resistor box.