is there any real threat to leavng ignition timing untouched? aside from lost HP and bad fuel economy, could a boosted aplication run a safe (low boodt) tune without touching the timing?

 

It could, but why would you want to?

People used to do it all the time with FMUs, now we are lucky we have such cheap and easy access to the maps in the ECU.

 

Depends on what you mean by un-touched.
Running too much ignition timing will cause detonation which will eventually cause engine failure.

 

i'm reffering to stock ignition timing on an boosted motor. the reason i ask is if one cant afford to tune a cars timing properly i.e. dyno time, would it be safe to enjoy boost with the stock timing until proper tuning can take place?

 

No, you can't run stock timing values from lets say an all motor vehicle on a turbo vehicle.
Do it right or you will end up rebuilding the motor because you wanted to save a few bucks.

 

u dont need a dyno

just use some free software and tune the bitch on the road

 

well by stock i dont mean running a gsr base with a ls-v on 10psi untouched. i mean with boost tools added (at Xpsi retard timing by X amount), could one drive the car safley?

 

That would be the safer way to go...

 

That would work better then a stock ecu.
I would suggest contacting your local tuner for a basemap & driving on the basemap instead of trying to make one your self without any prior tuning experience.

 

You can't tune ignition timing on the road. Neither EGTs nor a knock sensor are accurate enough for you to find MBT.

Besides the problems with advanced timing that were already mentioned, running too retarded causes excessive heat in the combustion chamber which leads to engine damage.

The deal with engine management is do it right or not at all. Get a good quality EMS and pay a good tuner to tune it for you, or keep the stock ECU.

 

the experience is what im trying to achieve, creating basemaps would be a good start to understanding engine management and i would assume making a basemap yourself is far better then buying one "set to your aplications". i have been reading up and am trying to get a better understanding of tuning as i have numerous friends that need it. i want to start on the simpler stuff that can get somebody to a tuner safley before advancing to dyno tuning.

 

start tuning na cars to learn the methods and then boost

 

thats what im actually working on right now, any tip you guys can offer whe tuning NA cars? such as what do low compressions motors usually like ignition wise and what do high compression motors like?

 

read those plugs man, they tell the story, it only takes a few seconds of cylinder pressure spikes to do some damage, make small changes, check, re check, change, then check and recheck, it can be tedious but so can dumping cash and time for tuning errors.

 

I highly disagree with that statement. Where was the world before dyno's according to Honda-Tech?

Through datalogging and continued tuning you can easily start to see the shape of the torque curve in the maps themselves. Timed runs, accelerometers, drag strip...there are tons of ways to tune without having a dyno. A dyno is a tool, just like widebands, or anything else. Yes, they make life easier, but it certainly doesn't mean tuning a motor is impossible without it...that's absurd.

 

Well dynos are a lot older than you think! The shop adjacent to my work has an old old dyno. It's a water eddy dyno with analog gauges. No computer, no printer. Good old 1970's technology.

Where was the world... well... there were carburetors and mechanical ignition timing advance. You had to re-tune at the track because weather and altitude changed everything. Performance vehicles had SERIOUS compromises. Forget drive-ability. Tolerances were extremely loose. You ran them fat and the ignition timing was fixed.

Our cars have "dry" intake manifolds; sequential fuel injectors placed just outside the combustion chamber. You can set nearly any ignition timing you want for any load and RPM. (It's really not that hard to convert to coil-on-plug ignition to make that statement 100% true.) Engine management systems are so fast that you can practically stop time with an internal logger. Lab grade sensors have already been adapted to an automotive application. They're cheap and readily available.

You want to tune your Honda like it's a late 60's muscle car? It's not even worth it. Rent a dyno for an hour. Just one hour. Drive a few hundred miles if you have to. It's the ONLY way you can set the ignition timing properly. Otherwise you might as well flip a coin.