PreClude

I wasn't sure where to post this, so mods move it if I'm in the wrong place. But I don't know where or how to reach out for some help. I need it. I have a 98 Prelude with a P72 OBD1 conversion chipped etc etc trying to get the darn thing to run right. I have had a few "tunes" by a local guy, but there always seems to be an issue... either I'm running too lean afterwards, or he is leaving me always in open loop with the front O2 turned off which scares me when it comes to adjusting for safety factors as well as possible elevation changes, you name it. I have had plenty of cars (my WRX namely) tuned perfectly with a front O2 sensor. Delete the rear one, sure, but keep the front one. I don't want to run around open loop all the time. I want good gas mileage, and I want decent power. I just want a decent tune where I don't keep having these problems. Right now my issues are that when cruising, every 5-10 seconds or so it feels like someone taps on the brakes or something slightly, jerking you back a little before continuing to cruise. On full throttle it seems to do OK, but the cruising thing is annoying as hell. And this is the second time my tuner has been unable to fix my stalling out when I come to a stop with my AC on on a hot day. I'm told this is a simple fix in the tune...

Anyways, I need someone to help me out. I have to use Chrome I guess, since I don't want to shell out the $$$ for Hondata just so I can have a professional shop tune me locally since that's all they use there.

Any suggestions or where I should post and look for help?

Thanks guys,.

0HAMOTORSPORTS

lol, runs terrible with Crome... typical lol

If you insist on keeping it on Crome, you will need to have your tuner spend more time editing the advanced tables...

PreClude

So you're saying the problem isn't my tuner, it's the software? I have a pretty basic and simple setup. Intake and a little exhaust, that's about it lol

I don't wanna spend $$$ on Hondata if I don't need it

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

hrtuning.com
ectune.com

Find a local tuner/dealer, use the single car chip license (around $100).

PreClude

Right on, thanks. Those guys don't seem to list Chrome as a tuning option though... is that the only kind of thing I can use to tune my chipped OBD1 P72 ECU? Or are they all essentially available to me besides the fancy Hondata?

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

Don't use crome... Use neptune or ectune single car license version available through an authorized tuner only even a hondata s100 module.
Finding a tuner that ACTUALLY knows what to do to make a car idle/drive well on crome is far and few between.

PreClude

So what was the point of getting a chipped OBD1 p72 if I'm gonna have to spend another couple hundred dollars on a new p72 (virgin?) and then pay someone to convert it for use with nePtune or Hondata? I'm confused. I dont see any listing for a single car license. Servion tuning website is down. And both of those places are in colorado springs which is 2 hours away from me almost. Is it really true there exists not a single soul in DENVER who knows wtf they're doing and can tune a Honda? If so that surprises me

HRTuning

You just need a chipped ECU to get tuned on NepTune or eCtune. You don't need a new one if yours is already chipped, which it clearly is from your original post.

When you get tuned by a dealer there's a license fee for the software being used on your ECU, as stated. That's what he's talking about.

If you're really having this much trouble I don't see how the trip to a professional wouldn't be worth it. I have no trouble getting on servion's site. Good luck with whatever you do.

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

Crome, Neptune & ectune single car license chip versions use a chipped/socketed ecu.
Neptune RTP uses a standard chipped/socketed ecu.
Hondata s100 uses a chipped/socketed ecu.
Hondata s300 uses an ecu with male style pins which have to be installed instead of a socket.

I am shocked that there are no competent tuners in your area (Denver) considering how big the city is.

Did you ever figure out if your injectors are true 290cc obd2 prelude injectors? Just curious.

crxrocks

PFI in Fort Collins gets good reviews
http://pfispeed.com/flash/index.php

PreClude

Sorry, I should have added that I was told by a local "reputable" shop with a 9 second Civic here at 6000ft elevation told me that I needed an entirely new virgin P72 so that they could convert it for use with Hondata and proceed to charge me up the *** for it. Phearable (guy I bought the chipped ECU from originally) said that provided there is no damage to the ECU itself, there shouldn't really be a problem converting what I already have to a Hondata setup, if I wanted. But all I was wanting to know was if Neptune was similar to Hondata in that sense of needing something extra done to the board aside from a simple chip. Or if Neptune was like Chrome in the sense that it could be used with a Romulator or whatever with a laptop like the guy who has been tuning me locally (and frustrating the hell out of me).

My troubles are really beginning to point more to the tuner and the tune itself, I feel. Trust me, I have been tearing my hair out on this car since I bought it. I'm really just simply trying to get it running like basically stock. I don't want oodles of power, I am not boosted, I am not anything crazy. I just want a decent, semi-sporty daily drive that is reliable and has decent gas mileage. I have dumped probably about $3000 into this car I bought for $4000 and it still doesn't run right. I have been to a "professional" shop tuner locally (http://www.importsports.net/) and like I said they told me I need to get on my knees and pray to the mecca of Hondata and nothing else will compare and there is just no other way to get my car to run STOCK other than to spend $800 on a Hondata S300 setup. I refuse to believe that. That's why I came here asking for help finding someone else.

The Servion website was down. It said "Stay Tuned!" and "Under Construction" but apparently now it's back up. Maybe I can make an appointment...

Yea, it really shocks me too because it's a decent car city. I mean, you can find tuners and shops for just about every major popular tunable car out there from domestics to Subarus and Evos etc. The only shop I found told me I needed Hondata and that my current board was of no use. Thank you for your info on that stuff. Maybe Neptune is cheaper. Maybe Servion can install and tune that all up for me. It just blows me away that I need all this just so I can run a pretty much basic stock tune.

No, they probably aren't I tried doing what you said and I bought a set of used "STOCK" Prelude injectors off eBay. I sent them off for cleaning and flow testing to A) make sure I had 290cc injectors and B) to have clean ones that flowed good. This is what they came back as:



So I guess those are 240cc that flow really well, I don't know. 290cc injectors are just about impossible to come by, apparently and I don't want to spend another $90 to send these ones that came off my car in to get cleaned and flow tested just to find out that they are also in fact probably 240cc injectors.

New injectors are a fortune. The local guy who is pissing me off told me I don't need much more than 240cc injectors for my setup....



Thanks. I don't see anything on their tuning though?

PreClude

I should add that the guy I have had "tune" me locally off Craigslist uses Chrome and he has me running in open loop constantly now because we can't get the car to run right with the primary O2 installed and in closed loop. He says a tuned car usually doesn't need or run right with a front O2 sensor. Um, so what about elevation changes? Anything that might affect AFRs and the primary O2 can be a little bit of a safety factor? I have had tuned cars from my BMW to my Jeep to my WRX that were all tuned just fine using the front O2 sensor. I mean, leaving it on.

PreClude

Does Chrome suck or is it just harder to tune with?

HRTuning

OBD1 only uses one O2 and you don't need to run it if you don't want to. If you're almost stock I'm not sure how Crome would have any trouble running your setup.

PreClude

Yes, I know OBD1 only uses one O2 sensor. I want to run it because I don't want to be in open loop all the time. You obviously have no experience tuning in Colorado where we can go from 5000ft elevation to 10,000 in less than 1 hour.

I guess it's not Chrome as much as my tuner then. Hence the name of this thread.

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

Yea, HRTuning is a jerk who doesn't know anything about tuning. You figured him out.

Watch out where you throw your barbs. He's one of the most well-respected figures in the Honda modding community and he knows more about tuning these cars than you'll ever know.

HRTuning

It's ok, he's frustrated. I still think servion is your best bet. He doesn't touch Crome, though. Good luck!

PreClude

Sorry, I never meant to question or doubt any "pro" tuner (not my local guy). I have just seen lots of great tuners tune cars at sea level and then they move to Colorado and have to get retuned because our elevation is a real issue. And the fact that we can encounter so many different and drastic elevation changes faster than most people in the US.


I tried Servion, but they never called me back. I spoke with one guy on the phone who didn't really seem to know much about the Honda side of their tuning shop... but he was able to give me the prices. For Neptune installed and tuned it would cost me $625! Woo hoo! Or he said Hondata is about $100 cheaper.

For pete's sake, I am basically STOCK. I have an intake, big deal. And a test pipe and a muffler lol. Yea I don't think I really need the Hondata S300 to get me running like a basically stock Prelude should. This is freaking ridiculous.

$350 on the P72 ECU and chipped by Phearable. Now I'm looking at $500-600 easily just to get running right for the last time lol.

HRTuning

Actually Hondata is $100 more if you go with the user tunable solution (S300 is 495 vs NepTune RTP 399), which you don't need anyway. NepTune chip version would be $100 for the license and whatever he'd charge you to ensure it runs and idles nicely, so whoever told you $625 must not understand the situation very well. You don't need a full tune if you're stock.

You already have a socketed ECU if you're currently running Crome (It's chipped as you mentioned), so you don't need a new ECU.

If you can find someone who's actually competent with Crome and elevation tuning go that route. Judging by how this thread is going I highly doubt you will.

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

Sorry I got touchy, just wanted to make sure you (OP) knew you were talking to the guy who wrote NepTune, lol.

Good luck getting things figured out. It must be really really annoying to be having that kind of trouble.

PreClude

It's all good guys. I didn't know HR wrote Neptune? Wow. I am honored lol.

Well I finally talked to someone competent at Servion/Revolutions Performance Tuning today. I might have to change that statement though after reading the last few posts

Adam was his name, and I actually know him from my Subaru days. He's a really competent tuner for the Subaru community which is really big in Colorado. He is known as one of the top 3 tuners for Subarus in the state. But he's not the one I need to talk to. That's Jeremy. But Adam said he could tell me anything I need to know whereas the kid yesterday didn't have a clue. My end result? Perhaps not much better though

After I explained my situation and everything to him, I basically got the same rundown as yesterday... just a different flavor. For Jeremy to do the single chip license version thingy, it is $150. It's $75 to install it I think? And $350 to tune me. So that's about $575 out the door, he said.

They don't have a per hour rate unless you are a repeat customer. They just charge a flat fee whether or not it takes the tuner 1 hour to figure out your car or 5. So I have to pay $350 for a tune for a stock NA motor. This just blows my mind. My old tuner Nick @ MAC Autosport in Denver for my WRX could figure out a boosted WRX on E85 with 1000cc injectors and a GT35R turbo in less than 2 hours.

I am about to tear my hair out. My tune is all jacked up again somehow... I don't know what happened since the craigslist tuner tuned me on Sunday, but now my car dies with the AC on when coming to a stop, and it bogs down in first gear, and it has GOT to be running richer than f*** because I am not only getting about 21mpg but I smell so much fuel/exhaust I know it can't be right.

DeeC2

Dude u don't know what your doing just get something someone can tune quit being soooo cheep. Hondata isn't to much if you have a car worth it if not get like a vafc or something those things are old school. But they can tune a vehicle and thats all you need, and all the shops(import sports, Trendz, Mac, PFI) will tune it. $$$save/spend some cash man$$$

DeeC2

honestly u should just use a stock ecu and call it a day there isnt anything done to your car... when someone goes to honda to pick up a new slab they dont go tune it they go wash it or get gas lmao all im saying is theres no need to tune a non modified vehicle even with your intake and muffler, trust me im in Denver and i/shops see people like this all the time! $$ Just save your money and put a factory ecu in it $$ Just remember this "If your gonna get your car tuned make sure you have something to tune."

PreClude

All due respect, dude, but if going back to a stock Prelude ECU was a viable option for me, I would have done that a long time ago. Maybe you are not familiar with the Prelude's lovely key immobilizer? I'll break it down for ya lol....
So, assuming I could find a factory Prelude ECU that works for cheap ($150 or so maybe?), I then have to take the ECU and the car to a Honda dealer. A new key immobilizer needs to be ordered from Honda, and that's another $500 I think? Then, the dealer charges the labor to pair the new ECU with the new immobilizer. That's all assuming they don't have to modify the ignition with a new set of keys or anything else like that, they said. Well, two different dealers told me. You are from Denver, so you know Planet Honda and GO Honda on 104th

Trust me, I almost did that last month. I have only had the car for about two months maybe. It's been a headache and half. Some genius before me was running the car on a P73 ECU from a ITR. It was JDM too. And they pulled the CEL bulb. I have been tracking down problems like you wouldn't imagine lol.

I didn't want to go the dealership back-to-stock route if I didn't have to, and certainly not for the same price as a Hondata S300 + tune, you know? That's where the OBD1 chipped P72 from Phearable for $350 seemed like a much better option for me. Little did I know, another genius before me did something with the stock Prelude 290cc injectors so the tune Phearable sent me didn't work. Enter craigslist tuner. Sure, he got me running I guess. But he uses Crome, tunes out of his garage, and every single I have got together for a tuning session with him, it has taken anywhere from 5-8 hours and been nothing but a fiasco. He always says the chip or the rom is corrupt or it didn't burn right or something is whacky. We spend half the time restarting his laptop I swear.

But maybe you're right. Looks like I might have to shell out some major dough either way here soon. I'm sorry, but this is just so sad to me. I thought better of Honda.

scamp91ex

Why can't you run a stock OBDI prelude ecu??