Does anyone have experience in calculating and tuning injector phase? Please check my math. You should be able to plug in any injector and lobe spec, then put in your WOT pulse widths to get the different injector advancements to finish the pulse before your valves close.

Here's a link to the doc:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I'm using DSM 450cc blue top 2.2ohm injectors with skunk2 tuner stage2 cams.
The injector lag time comes from http://injector-rehab.com/shop/lag.html
Cam specs from skunk2's http://store.skunk2.com/engine-tunin...afts-2846.html

The rest of my setup is sleeved h22, 11.5:1 pistons, skunk2 valvetrain, and an old AEM EMS series 1. I'm about to swap out the dizzy for the AEM EPM, and hopefully take advantage of more precise timing control. I'm curious if it's going to make any difference in power, fuel efficiency, and/or emissions at all. I have no idea if it should be better to finish as early as possible, or if I want the fuel pulse to start as late as possible or perhaps just centered around peak lift. Any insight before I waste time on the dyno?

 

After reading the EFI Basics pdf, it seems like the important thing is to start spraying after the overlap ends instead of right when the intake starts opening, and end spraying before the intake is closed.

So when your injector can't start and finish in that window, is it better to go earlier or later?

And what if you have large enough injectors that finishing the duty cycle at redline is no problem? Should you wait to spray until it's fully open or still aim for the point when the exhaust valve closes and be done spraying as early as possible? Or something else entirely??? My guess is you would want to take advantage of the highest air velocity as possible, whatever part of the intake opening that is...

Anyone got a set of id1000's I can borrow for a test vs my 450's? lol

 

How do you plan to test?

 

Two final runs on the dyno changing nothing but injector phasing. I think I should either move the whole range up/down from where i started, or just move above 5k. I'm leaving it alone for now with the values in my cal (carried over from prelude startup cal from aem). They are almost dead-on from 500 to 5000 rpm to what I calculated for center in the spreadsheet. After 5k its lagging a little from what I calculated, so it might need a little more advance for everything above 5k. If it's just emissions I guess I won't see it, but if there's any power change, that would be nice

I need to find a cheap dyno by the hour in the Houston area to finish tuning everything else before I do this. I've done about all I can with a wideband, automapping, and data logging followed by manual adjustments and more data logging to compare the changes. I've tuned for 12.9:1 WOT down to 15:1 at idle and leaner in decel, but I know only the dyno will tell me the exact afr this motor likes for the most power.

 

The only time injector phasing will matter is when you have big injectors and even then it will only effect idle and very low pulsewith or duty cycle.

You can do all the calculations in the world but in the end you will give what the engine wants not what you think it needs. You will find out what the engine really needs when you fit 800+cc injectors... No need for dyno here.

 

injetor phase should be tested on a bench, not a dyno.

 

I know for a damn fact I am having Injector Timing issues.
ID2000's and BrianCrower Stg2 N/A Cams(basically a skunk2 Pro1)
Problem I am having a hard time understanding how the entire ******* Injector Phasing Template works
Does RAISING values in the main Inj Advance Map, Retard or Advance the Injector Opening Event?

I am also having a hard time understanding how all the Tooth options work in relation to the timing of the injector. I understand that there are 24teeth and and that firing events are separated by those numbers. But, why are the Injector Tooth 1-4 the exact same as the Ign Tooth 1-4 values??? As you can see. I have both Ign and Inj Phasing Options in the pic for you.
I am running a C.O.P Setup(; To my understanding(i'm probably wrong on this). But, if the Ign and Inj Tooth values are the same wouldn't the Injectors and the Coils be firing at the exact same time? Or is it due to the fact the Crank spins 2-1 Cam revolution, in which case the Injector would would be firing 180 Crank degrees away from where the Coil is Firing:/ The
The Car runs good(could be better). But, my logs are coming out alot crappier with vtec Cams. I recently had the Web Pro Series Vtec Killer Cam setup and the logs were coming out ALOT cleaner(more Duration and more valve open time in low rpm to not be spraying the back of the Valves or something).

 

Raising the value advances the event. The higher the value, the sooner it occurs.

Because EMS operates all types of engines, you input the same tooth values for ignition and injectors and it alternates based on your engine settings (4 stroke, 4 cyl).

Did you go through the ignition timing sync process? It appears that you have, but just checking.

Honestly I still doubt you're having phase issues. In high velocity applications or with adjustable cam gears you might need a minor tweak, but for an all-motor engine if you're having noticeable differences it's probably either a hidden mechanical problem, a base timing issue, or an acute mechanical problem.

 

I think you nailed that last part. My LSA was tight 104.5deg. I did have 1 Slightly leaky Cylinder by the time I got the last Log and a blown head gasket lol...
But, with my huge ID2000 on such a small engine. You could image my Injector Open times are extremely short and when i'm not in Vtec on the Primary Lobes, I have little lift and little Duration.
The Likelyhood of my Injector timing being off is Undeniable for sure. I have only Slightly changed the main Inj Advance Map from the Base .Cal!
I have been working my *** off to understand all this ems/tuning stuff. Probably over 1month out of my life 24/7 Studying for this and I know that everything in the Tune has been touched on Correctly. The last thing I have is Injector Timing to dabble with I believe.

So now I know that Raising the entire Inj Advance Map would Advance the Injector firings at all conditions. That is a big start. What about moving the Injector Phase value? So my Injector Phase value is set at 17. If I move that 17 to say 16 or 18. Wouldn't that basically do the same thing as moving the entire Inj Advance Map up/down?
I found this Thread by Google.coming my life away. So as much helpful info as people with experience can post the better for me and everyone, searching out this question is. I know good tuners don't like to reveal their knowledge. That's like Diat Coke wanting to sale as much Coke as possible and telling you that it will make you fatter than regular coke. They would be the better man if they take a min to lay it on the line....Thanks

 

Can you post a log of these same recorded parameters at idle and fully warmed up engine?

 

I can't. My car is tore down while i'm out of town working until next month.
The last time I played with Injector Phasing I was logging the Tuning Template
I used these instructions that I searched out, when I did play with it some...

AEM EMS Guidebook/Injector Phase - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

I should have been doing an internal log while doing.. As you may see though my Main Injector Adv Map has already been adjusted slightly down(retarded injectors I guess) between 950-3200rpm. The engine seemed to respond happy to them SLIGHT changes. I didn't want to change it a bunch though...

If you could, please try to explain what i'm looking for when viewing them parameters on a log.