/hey guys whats up? Does anyone know anything about this product i saw it in Honda tuning this month and was very curious. I searched and only found a few mentions of it here and there. I also attempted to go to there site and only saw applications for domestics. With my set up my only other option according to my tuner is AEM EMS since it's the only real affordable tuning system that has a Fail Safe option, unless someone else has a suggestion for a tuning system with a fail safe option. Thanks guys , any help is appreciated

 

I have direct experience with FAST XFI and the older Speedpro/FAST Dos based software systems on several cars. What specifically do you want to know? Not quite sure what a "fail safe" option is? Are you referring to a boost cut, rev limiter, etc?

 

Fail Safe meaning for knock detection and detonation as it was explained to me. Basically i want to run 12 psi from a JRSC on my R and keep the compression stock. If you have any suggestions that would be great. It will be intercooled and my tuner strongly reccomended alky injection as well.

 

J&S Safeguard I believe look it up may be what you really need!!!

 

I heard more bad things about the J&S than good.
I never used it though.
I think that 12 psi is too much boost to be running from a JRSC due to the heat. Even if it has an LHT intercooler on it, I think a turbo would be a better option with that much boost. And running stock compression, I don't think I would do 12 psi anyway. There is a lot of information on that topic in the archives.

I ran 7.5 psi and the heat was outrageous from the JRSC

 

I've never heard of the J&S but does seem to good to be true, but no real proof. It alsodoesnt say anything about tuning. Yea my tuner thinks its def. attainable to run 12 psi as long as i use alky injection and the lht. It's not a daily driver and if it doesn't work i could always go turbo or lower the boost. Maybe 7.5 psi will be enough.. we shall soon find out. Any other comments welcome. Thanks guys

 

check efi101.com and search for the J&S youll find proof LOL
No it is not a tuning setup in itself more of a "Safeguard" Have you seen the features in ECtune?? With the boost solenoid may be something to consider I have been looking it over a litttle but havent used yet just a thought

 

In theory whats wrong with a stock ECU based system utilizing a stock knock sensor?? Your wanting to stay stock comp so Im geussing all stock internals therefore the stock knock sensor will pick up knock in that motor as it is tuned for the frequency of the internals that exist ?!
So using EC tune,Neptune etc could you initiate a fuel/boost cut with the knock sensor as a signal??
Just a couple thoughts anyone else feel free to point out any flaws in my theory I may have missed

 

The problem is that the Honda knock sensor, and even the J&S sensor do not work very well.

It is well documented that if you try and rely on a knock sensor to pull timing for you, the motor is at a MUCH greater chance of blowing up. Knock sensors should be used only for protection against a bad tank of gas.
I know that the Honda knock sensor is very sensitive and even picks up the VTEC sound and counts that as knock, retarding timing when it is not needed.

IMO, it would be better to use a DynoDynamics dyno or similar to monitor the torque output while making changes to the timing. You can do this for both part and full throttle. You can give it timing until it stops making power, then back off a hair for safety.

 

Im not even sure where to start:

1. How exactly do you think the AEM "PLUG AND PLAY is going to pick up knock??
2. Read your own post: Youll trust that same sensor all of a sudden to cover for a tank of shitty gas in current market conditions??
3. By your own statement its an "extremely sensitive sensor that even picks up VTEC" So then it is or isnt sensitive enough to be a safeguard as the original poster asked.
4. Your last point copy and pasted from where?? Do you even know why a ,DD or similar dyno"???

 

D16Z6TURBO It seems like you're getting heated up. I could be wrong, but if I'm not, please try to realize that no one is deliberately contradicting each other. We all give our opinions as was requested. It doesn't appear that he meant any offense.

What Move Over is talking about is the fact that the Honda knock sensor is extremely sensitive. It indicates knock even during normal combustion. The ECU ignores most of it. And when it does believe there is knock, it pulls a ton of timing for a relatively long period of time.

My tuner didn't want to use the knock sensor at all originally with my EMS. But we were getting random and unusual misfires every couple of dyno pulls. So he did a bunch of logs and then set the knock threshold and it has worked beautifully. Of course I am going to address the actual problem when I can (I already know the coil is bad).

Thing is my engine is basically stock.

Another reason why I agree with the OP about getting a standalone is that you will have better and more precise control of your ignition timing. The EMS has more breakpoints, more trims, and you know exactly what the actual output timing is.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMO, it would be better to use a DynoDynamics dyno or similar to monitor the torque output while making changes to the timing. You can do this for both part and full throttle. You can give it timing until it stops making power, then back off a hair for safety.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Basically you need a dyno that allows you to hold particular loads. Like a Mustang dyno.

 

LOL No biggie dont mind me.

Some things I dont have the patience to explain in the depth as it may require to be fully understood. At those times my responses can be less than courteous.
Yes its is sensitive and yes this can be adjusted for as your tuner did for you this is the OEM CYA policy kind of thing.
His Tuner does want to use something with a failsafe ie: knock detection and is suggesting AEM which will use the stock knock sensor for this. So it is already in the game no matter how much we discuss its sensitivity

So once we move past the knock sensor we are using for a failsafe detection then we want to shut things off Fuel/Spark. EC Tune, Neptune could both cut fuel and spark yes?
My original point was could we utilize the stock sensor to trigger these cutoffs at a preset threshhold??
Where the only main benefit I see with the AEM is going to be elec. boost control/cut not an issue as this is an SC car.
As you see most of this was directed to the second half of the original posters? As I agree I havent seen any import offerings from F.A.S.T as of yet but will agree with your tuner F.A.S.T makes a great product for EFI conv on SBC and SBF stuff.

Hopefully that clarifies my theory on a solution for you seperate from AEM as I dont really see the need

 

Thanks dz16z6, i appreciate your input as well as everyone elses.I prob. should just suck it up and run the AEM and T1 trigger cam with COP. As this is what my tuner feels most comfortable with.I have heard s300 can support the alky injection. More research to do.Thanks guys and any other input as usuall is welcome. Can a GM knock sensor be used?

 

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