Crome - From the beginning
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
From: Griffin Ga
Crome - From the beginning
Datalogging - Hondalog or Hulog to Log the Info and save it.
Crome startup
Moates Ostrich v2.0 conncects to eprom low profile ZIF socket to emulate rom. Roms loaded via Crome
(Current A/F - Target A/F) / (Current A/F) = % Change in fuel
Crome startup
Moates Ostrich v2.0 conncects to eprom low profile ZIF socket to emulate rom. Roms loaded via Crome
(Current A/F - Target A/F) / (Current A/F) = % Change in fuel
12.5:1 AFR for max power is kind of a rule of thumb. It is not always the best case. 13:1 is another common rule of thumb for "max power" output. The only way to tell for sure is to put your car on the dyno. Run it and tune until you find the AFR that makes the best power and isn't going to harm the engine.
As for economy, I have tuned a few cars with 15.XX:1 at low load areas and idle. They remain safe from detonation and the MPG on a boosted car is pretty good. An idle and cruise AFR of 15.XX:1 sometimes makes up for the 11:1 WOT boost AFR's over the long run. depends on if hte owner can keep their foot off the gas.
However, economical isn't always the most environmental. That is really where 14.7:1 comes in. It's the best all around AFR for a good balance of power, economy and emissions. Start to go ether way north or south and the balance starts to shift.
As for economy, I have tuned a few cars with 15.XX:1 at low load areas and idle. They remain safe from detonation and the MPG on a boosted car is pretty good. An idle and cruise AFR of 15.XX:1 sometimes makes up for the 11:1 WOT boost AFR's over the long run. depends on if hte owner can keep their foot off the gas.
However, economical isn't always the most environmental. That is really where 14.7:1 comes in. It's the best all around AFR for a good balance of power, economy and emissions. Start to go ether way north or south and the balance starts to shift.Last edited by xero_xero; Jul 31, 2011 at 02:49 PM.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
From: Griffin Ga
Re: Crome - From the beginning
Pending questions as of 7/29
What types of ecu sockets are available for ecus?
How do you extract the logged information into a usuable map?
As far as Air fuel ratio goes, what should the range be for full throttle acceleration on na and turbo cars?
how important is the curve that concerns voltage correction and what is the best way to deal with this curve?
What types of ecu sockets are available for ecus?
How do you extract the logged information into a usuable map?
As far as Air fuel ratio goes, what should the range be for full throttle acceleration on na and turbo cars?
how important is the curve that concerns voltage correction and what is the best way to deal with this curve?
Last edited by xero_xero; Sep 1, 2011 at 02:47 PM.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,399
Likes: 69
From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: Crome - From the beginning
Where you asked about connecting your laptop to the ECU, it's probably best to start with the basics.
Then move onto the Crome specifics. www.Xenocron.com Crome start-up guide
There is also http://forum.pgmfi.org/ the root of all Crome knowledge.
Then move onto the Crome specifics. www.Xenocron.com Crome start-up guide
There is also http://forum.pgmfi.org/ the root of all Crome knowledge.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,399
Likes: 69
From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: Crome - From the beginning
The ostrich uses a 28 pin ribbon connection that plugs into where the ROM chip would usually be. It requires the OBD1 (P06, P30, P72 P75) to have been modified "chipped" with a 28 pin socket and run an EPROM chip/Moates Ostrich.
Picture of an OBD1 ECU chipped with a low profile ZIF socket and ready for ether a 28 pin EPROM chip or the Ostrich connector.
Top left of this image is the 28 pin Ostrich ribbon connected to the ECU.
In order to datalog or even start the engine. You would require a basemap to be loaded onto the ostrich or EPROM chip. You would then use the datalog information to help make changes to the basemap.
Picture of an OBD1 ECU chipped with a low profile ZIF socket and ready for ether a 28 pin EPROM chip or the Ostrich connector.
Top left of this image is the 28 pin Ostrich ribbon connected to the ECU.
In order to datalog or even start the engine. You would require a basemap to be loaded onto the ostrich or EPROM chip. You would then use the datalog information to help make changes to the basemap.
Trending Topics
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,399
Likes: 69
From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: Crome - From the beginning
Honestly I have never tried to datalog a stock ECU. However there is a 4 pin header @ CN2 that is used for datalogging with a hulog or hondalog cable. there are some DIY cables out there as well. They are also listed on the Xenocron tech page.
You could give it a try and see what you get. I usually use an OBD1/2 scan tool for logging a stock ECU.
You could give it a try and see what you get. I usually use an OBD1/2 scan tool for logging a stock ECU.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
From: Griffin Ga
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,399
Likes: 69
From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: Crome - From the beginning
I plug ether my Innova OBD scanner or my Palm pilot into the OBD port (behind the ashtray on my Accord) and read the screen on my scan tool/palm pilot.
If I want to log data I start up the car, plug in the scan tool, press the log data button, and go for a drive.
If I want to log data I start up the car, plug in the scan tool, press the log data button, and go for a drive.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,399
Likes: 69
From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: Crome - From the beginning
There are quite a few books on how to read sensor data and create fuel and ignition maps. I don't have enough time to go through all of the specifics. Sorry!
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
From: Chandler, Arizona, USA
Re: Crome - From the beginning
What exactly are you wanting to do? you just want to log Data or do you want to make a base map for your vehicle? like GHOST ACCORD said you can use any obd2 scanner and can view the live data feed from it. But if you are actually wanting to capture the information you will need Hondalog or Hulog to Log the Info and save it.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
From: Griffin Ga
Re: Crome - From the beginning
These are simply quesions i have.
What about ignition timing over a fuel curve? how and why does it change? differences in timing for boost or nitrous?
What about ignition timing over a fuel curve? how and why does it change? differences in timing for boost or nitrous?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 1
From: Port Arthur, TX, USA
Re: Crome - From the beginning
trying to answer your questions is like trying to explain to a high school graduate how to do the surgeon's job during an open heart surgery. you will have to spend a lot of time reading, tuning and figuring this stuff out. I don't think anyone will be able to simply tell you how to tune in a few sentences.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,724
Likes: 1
From: Hillburn, NY, USA
Re: Crome - From the beginning
You might want to look into taking a class from EFI University.
www.efi101.com
Check out the schedule, I believe they come to GA quite often.
www.efi101.com
Check out the schedule, I believe they come to GA quite often.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
From: Griffin Ga
Re: Crome - From the beginning
trying to answer your questions is like trying to explain to a high school graduate how to do the surgeon's job during an open heart surgery. you will have to spend a lot of time reading, tuning and figuring this stuff out. I don't think anyone will be able to simply tell you how to tune in a few sentences.
As far as the classes. i would love to take a few. that would make me travel to either Tennessee or florida.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,399
Likes: 69
From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: Crome - From the beginning
Go down to your local tuning shop and talk with the tech. Get a rapport going with them and start asking them questions. Don't just show up and bury them with a million questions off the hop. If you are truly interested in learning this. Maybe you could look into doing an evening/weekend apprenticeship type thing with them. Help out around the shop, if you can, in trade for their tuning knowledge. Things usually work when there is some give and take, not all take!
Or you could go memorize some books, pass some tests, and have no actual hands on knowledge. Theory is great for a start, but hands on is the way to go.
Or you could go memorize some books, pass some tests, and have no actual hands on knowledge. Theory is great for a start, but hands on is the way to go.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
From: Griffin Ga
Re: Crome - From the beginning
Go down to your local tuning shop and talk with the tech. Get a rapport going with them and start asking them questions. Don't just show up and bury them with a million questions off the hop. If you are truly interested in learning this. Maybe you could look into doing an evening/weekend apprenticeship type thing with them. Help out around the shop, if you can, in trade for their tuning knowledge. Things usually work when there is some give and take, not all take!
Or you could go memorize some books, pass some tests, and have no actual hands on knowledge. Theory is great for a start, but hands on is the way to go.
Or you could go memorize some books, pass some tests, and have no actual hands on knowledge. Theory is great for a start, but hands on is the way to go.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
From: Griffin Ga
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 1
From: Port Arthur, TX, USA
Re: Crome - From the beginning
im not looking to be an expert in 5 easy steps. i am looking for questions that i have. if you can answer them, i welcome it. any discouragement will be whimsically ignored. my learning curve is about 1/4 of most people. Again, i pulled a machinist certificate in 6 months. the course is 2 years in a tech school. i can keep up. took cal 2 in my senior year of high school.
As far as the classes. i would love to take a few. that would make me travel to either Tennessee or florida.
As far as the classes. i would love to take a few. that would make me travel to either Tennessee or florida.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
From: Griffin Ga
Re: Crome - From the beginning
I taught myself cal 2 when I was 15 years old, but I still had to read a whole lot and tune a lot of cars to learn what I've learned. I still consider myself a beginner, but I also tune cars better than some of the "tuners" in my area. There's a lot of stuff you need to learn, and it's practically impossible to fit it into a single thread. What I would suggest is to do a lot of reading, find a local shop like Ghostaccord said, and start tuning your own car. If you have specific questions then do a search or post them here. I find a lot of answers to my specific honda-related questions by including site:honda-tech.com in the search box on google. You can also try pgmfi.org forums for info.
As far as Air fuel ratio goes, what should the range be for full throttle acceleration on na and turbo cars? how important is the curve that concerns voltage. what is the best way to deal with this curve.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 1
From: Port Arthur, TX, USA
Re: Crome - From the beginning
yet again, if you cant answer my questions i will simply ignore you. thoes search tricks have been around since google started. as far as pgmfi.org goes its ownership resides in Hondata. not a big fan of that.
As far as Air fuel ratio goes, what should the range be for full throttle acceleration on na and turbo cars? how important is the curve that concerns voltage. what is the best way to deal with this curve.
As far as Air fuel ratio goes, what should the range be for full throttle acceleration on na and turbo cars? how important is the curve that concerns voltage. what is the best way to deal with this curve.