2004.4.9


Well, I'm thinking to get into the SCCA for AutoCross and in the long run, road racing. BUT, I'm just wondering about how the driving is on course. I've gone down to do one or two in the past, this was about a year ago, and couldn't heel/toe, left foot brake, or do E-brake drifts at that time...now, things have changed...

Just wanted to know from some of the AutoXs out there if you get a chance to do any heel/toe, left foot braking, or E-brake drifts out on course. From what I remember, the "track" layout was tight, pretty narrow, and regulated to about a top speed of 65 (this was in my Honda Civic 95 Coupe). I realize that the "track" changes each time, but anyone ever get to use those pre-mentioned techs. as they do an AutoX race?

Curious to see the input...let me know what you guys can do!

 

NEVER e-brake drift.

You will use heel-toe if you have the ability and left foot braking often, again if you know how to. These techniques at auto-x speed are completely different than what you probably do on the street. Go to some events and practice there.

 

Not much reason to heel/toe when the car stays in second for the whole run (well, most of the time, for me, that is). Never a reason to e-brake drift--that only slows you down unproductively. If you need to get the tail around, get a bigger rear sway and stiffen up your rear shock settings.

Heel/toe is a must on the road course when going from a long straight into a big turn. I learned its neccessity the first time I did an HPDE at Limerock. When entering big bend after the main straight, you need to brake, blip and downshift all at the same time. I knew how to do it for my 2nd HPDE there. I practiced on the streets in order to get it down.

While I don't know how to left foot brake, I understand the technique (duh) and it seems like it would really help out in an auto-x.


Modified by gamby at 9:36 AM 4/11/2004

 

i never find the need to heeltoe since i don't usually downshift into first, and i'm never hitting 3rd.

left foot braking is tough in any application, and i don't feel confident enough in my skills to do it on course. but i can see it being very helpful in certain corners.

 

Im sure it does help, although I havent had the chance to apply it on track yet. I started practicing on auto trannys, then in my dx, but it was a whole nother ball game when I did it in the Teg with the Carbotech pads. (not that I have any AutoX experiance, just my $.02 on howI learned)

 

E-brake drifts: never -- as already mentioned, it's not the fast way around the course

Heel/toe down shifts: rarely -- once i get to 2nd gear, there's seldom the need to go to first gear. Very tight hairpin turns, marked by a single cone, is where I'm most tempted to try this. Even still, going from 2nd to 1st gear can really unsettle the car unless it's done perfectly. And then I get lots of wheel spin with an open diff coming out of the turn. It's a real judgment call.

Left foot braking: by far the most helpful and most used technique by me. Very useful in slalom sections and sweeper/carosel type turns, especially when trying to trail brake, to help the car rotate better.

 

What is right foot braking? I only have driven braking with my left foot, even with an automatic...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Simon Tibbett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is right foot braking? I only have driven braking with my left foot, even with an automatic... </TD></TR></TABLE>

u mean what is LEFT foot braking right? you normally brake with your RIGHT foot, but in the case of autox/roadcourse/track a fwd car driver would opt for left foot braking to induce oversteer to get more grip to the front tires. this is more or less an advanced technique that competitive drivers use.

 

so how does left foot braking work? ive always wonder about that..i hear it a lot and ive read it here..trying to apply it to my head..

do you let go of the gas pedal as you left foot brakes? and how hard do you press? isnt your left foot a lot sensitive causing the car to jerk a lot..because you'll be pressing it a lot harder?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crashtest Sonny &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so how does left foot braking work? ive always wonder about that..i hear it a lot and ive read it here..trying to apply it to my head..

do you let go of the gas pedal as you left foot brakes? and how hard do you press? isnt your left foot a lot sensitive causing the car to jerk a lot..because you'll be pressing it a lot harder? </TD></TR></TABLE>

left foot braking is when you're on the throttle but start braking. you're on both pedals at the same time and modulate the brake as needed to get you to the right speed for the corner. what this does is keep your revs up and keeps you in the powerband, ideally, so you have torque during the corner exit.

I've tried left foot braking sweepers, but chicken out when i find myself not slowing down fast enough and not being able to commit to really pressing the brake with my clutch adapted heavy left foot...

 

ahh... what do you mean by sweepers?

 

a sweeper is a kind of turn. hmm, i can best describe it as something that is akin to a curved freeway onramp/transition road.

 

ah..so its something like ebraking on a turn..but with the brake pedal?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crashtest Sonny &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ah..so its something like ebraking on a turn..but with the brake pedal?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No.

You guys should read 'Secrets of Solo Racing' and 'Going Faster'.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You guys should read 'Secrets of Solo Racing' </TD></TR></TABLE>



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and 'Going Faster'.</TD></TR></TABLE>

save this one til you've done a few HPDEs

 

man i have to read...does it come with a cassette? how about a dvd?

 

If you want to be slow you dont have to read

The books even have some pictures for you....

 

honestly, you don't need ANY of those 3 skills to be fast at an autocross.

The end.

 

i think using all three of these skills depends greatly on how your car is geared and engine characteristics. On most autox tracks, I'm always in second gear unless there's a looooooooong straight, and only use first out of the start gate. As a matter of fact, the only time I touch the brake pedal might be right before a hairpin or before the ess turn. And even then it's just a tap, clutch out into the turn, and gas out the back door. But like I said, this seems to work well with my engine and gearing. Practice on the track (or poach runs if you can) to try a few different tactics and see what is the fastest for ya.


Modified by what the... at 11:21 AM 4/13/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want to be slow you dont have to read

P</TD></TR></TABLE>


i guess you haven't picked up that book yet then eh????!!!! hehehehee

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PseudoRealityX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honestly, you don't need ANY of those 3 skills to be fast at an autocross.

The end.</TD></TR></TABLE>


ummmm.....bullcrap cept for the EBRAKE DRIFTO....

left foot braking
heel-toe
ARE DEFINATELY USED IN AUTOX BY THE TOP DRIVERS!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i guess you haven't picked up that book yet then eh????!!!! hehehehee</TD></TR></TABLE>

&gt;zing!&lt;

LFB works great on b00sted cars

Especially 300hp AWD cars in the wet! d0rift0!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


ummmm.....bullcrap cept for the EBRAKE DRIFTO....

left foot braking
heel-toe
ARE DEFINATELY USED IN AUTOX BY THE TOP DRIVERS!!!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

you dont NEED them and aren't used that much. There is much more important stuff to work on. left foot braking is the only one that I could say i use often and thats maybe for just 2 seconds max if the course even needs that input.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ryan12321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you dont NEED them and aren't used that much. There is much more important stuff to work on. left foot braking is the only one that I could say i use often and thats maybe for just 2 seconds max if the course even needs that input.</TD></TR></TABLE>


you don't need them but when you do it is good for 2 seconds??? well if it is GOOD FOR 2 seconds then i would say that YOU NEED TO USE THAT!!!!......but hey if you don't want to be 2 seconds faster then don't use it!!

heel-toe....you don't use in autox?? where are these courses where you don't have to shift??? every autox i have been at i have had to shift more than once and heel toe gets it into gear faster and easier!!!

 

I didnt mean it as it saves you 2 seconds. I might have my left foot using the brake maybe 2 seconds out of the 60 or so the course lasts. The left foot braking might give me a tenth of two and definately not neccesary until you get past local competition.

And no I have only heel-toed about 3 times in auto-x. I'm not good enough at it to yet. And these are courses all over the country.

just my opinions though