Where would should shift at and why? Why is a big part of this so if you are just going to give an RPM, jsut don't post. The goal is the fastest ETs possible. Mechinicals can easily spin past 8300rpm.

 

High as you can rev it. Check the area under the curve... you're still making more hp @ 8k than you are at 5.5k. I'd actually take that engine to 8500 and I bet it'd be faster.

Take advantage of the gearing... you don't see that on dyno charts. Keep it in 1st gear longer, you could even do 9k if the engine would stand up to it, and it'll be faster than a car that early shifts to 2nd because the tq multiplication in 1st gear will make it have more effective power at the wheels.

I always got my best times shifting at 8500 or 8800 rpm on my stock B16... a dyno chart isn't the best way to plan your shift points.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">High as you can rev it. Check the area under the curve... you're still making more hp @ 8k than you are at 5.5k. I'd actually take that engine to 8500 and I bet it'd be faster.

Take advantage of the gearing... you don't see that on dyno charts. Keep it in 1st gear longer, you could even do 9k if the engine would stand up to it, and it'll be faster than a car that early shifts to 2nd because the tq multiplication in 1st gear will make it have more effective power at the wheels.

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Thank you. There was a couple of very large debates about this and some people seem to believe you should shift so that your rpm in the next gear lands at the peak wtq rpm.

 

That would be correct if every gear had the same multiplication ratio... lol.

 

Thank you, just wanted to know.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DarkKnight1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thank you. There was a couple of very large debates about this and some people seem to believe you should shift so that your rpm in the next gear lands at the peak wtq rpm.</TD></TR></TABLE>

shift so your rpm in the next gear doesnt fall *UNDER* the peak wtq rpm. as long as the engine is still making power, rev it out.

 

Adam, Where is andyd now? Funny how the opinion of EXPERIENCED drag racers is so much different. With your head being built you should be fine.

8300 shift on a stock internal NA H22

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Adam, Where is andyd now? Funny how the opinion of EXPERIENCED drag racers is so much different. With your head being built you should be fine.

8300 shift on a stock internal NA H22 </TD></TR></TABLE>

fo' shizzle.

 

What ECU do you use to be able to rev that high on an H22? My rev limiter kicks in at 7400 on my USDM P13...I wish it would rev higher!

I have Crower spring and retainer kit to help hold up at higher revs (at least higher than 7400!).

Here's my dyno...where should I shift?




Modified by Daily Interlude at 7:19 PM 7/6/2005


Modified by Daily Interlude at 7:21 PM 7/6/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Daily Interlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What ECU do you use to be able to rev that high on an H22? My rev limiter kicks in at 7500 on my USDM P13...I wish it would rev higher!

I have Crower spring and retainer kit to help hold up at higher revs (at least higher than 7500!).

Here's my dyno...where should I shift?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you have it tuned? I'm running a socketed P28 tuned via Crome Pro. You can set your rev limit to whatever you want. How did you have that tuned?

As it stands now, if your rev limiter hits @ 7500, I'd try and shift at as close to hit as possible without hitting the limiter.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DarkKnight1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do you have it tuned? I'm running a socketed P28 tuned via Crome Pro. You can set your rev limit to whatever you want. How did you have that tuned?

As it stands now, if your rev limiter hits @ 7500, I'd try and shift at as close to hit as possible without hitting the limiter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's tuned with a VAFC. I need to find a way to raise the rev limit but until I can afford some engine management, I guess this is the way I'll stay.

But yeah, that's what I figured (on the shift point). It's hard to tell if my rev limit kicked in cutting power (why it starts to decline at ~7200) or if there is something else.

I do have the DC Header that really wants/needs the collector mod done. Add that to my puny 2.5" intake piping and my restrictive exhaust work (they used the stock flanges so they go from 2.5" to 2" and then back to 2.25"), I'm sure there is more power waiting to be unleashed.

I just don't have the money to do any of it! But family comes first...my hobby will have to wait.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Daily Interlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's tuned with a VAFC. I need to find a way to raise the rev limit but until I can afford some engine management, I guess this is the way I'll stay.

But yeah, that's what I figured (on the shift point). It's hard to tell if my rev limit kicked in cutting power (why it starts to decline at ~7200) or if there is something else.

I do have the DC Header that really wants/needs the collector mod done. Add that to my puny 2.5" intake piping and my restrictive exhaust work (they used the stock flanges so they go from 2.5" to 2" and then back to 2.25"), I'm sure there is more power waiting to be unleashed.

I just don't have the money to do any of it! But family comes first...my hobby will have to wait. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Lol, I hate to be mean, but your H22 dyno brings shame to every h22 out there. It hurts to see a cammed h22 make less than 200whp.

Get that thing breathing w/ a 2.5" Kteller exhaust, an AN-R/Prospeed/Hytech/SMSP header, and a 3" intake w/ a K&N filter, tuned via Uberdata/Crome/Hondata and you'll see what the H22 is all about.

 

You're not being mean...in fact you're saying the same things I've always said about my engine.

I didn't build this setup...in fact I've been trying to get it straight since the day I bought it. VTEC didn't even work when I got it!

You see that low set of numbers (like less than 150whp)? That was what it was making before tuning (with VTEC working!). So getting another 30whp after tuning and 180whp doesn't sound so bad.

This thing was slapped together. It didn't appear that much thought went into it...

 

going by your dyno sheet 7600-7700 is where you should shift for best ET with an H22 tranny.

not sure why people think the rpm dropping to max tq is the correct way. 100% wrong.

you want to shift so when your rpm drops from gear to gear max HP is right in between.

gearing also plays a big part but if you go by this rule, in most cases you will run faster than shifting at ridiculously high rpm where the car is making no power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickeng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">going by your dyno sheet 7600-7700 is where you should shift for best ET with an H22 tranny.

not sure why people think the rpm dropping to max tq is the correct way. 100% wrong.

you want to shift so when your rpm drops from gear to gear max HP is right in between.

gearing also plays a big part but if you go by this rule, in most cases you will run faster than shifting at ridiculously high rpm where the car is making no power. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have to disagree. It's been proven time and time again that shifting just after peak whp is not the right way.

 

FOLKS: You want to shift so that you will be riding the most AREA under the curve.

 

OK.

but just something to think about this. (fact) the most average HP from start to finish will yield the fastest ET. do the math.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickeng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK.

but just something to think about this. (fact) the most average HP from start to finish will yield the fastest ET. do the math.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Torque multiplication in EACH GEAR will get you to the end fastest. The dyno shows your power falling off, you lose 10ft-lbs by taking it to 8000 instead of 7500, but by keeping it in a lower gear, your torque AT THE WHEELS is higher than if you shifted. No one gives a damn about your flywheel torque rating or the gear-corrected HP rating a dyno spits out. Effective torque, torque run through a transmission, is what matters. And that is why RPM owns low end torque on the track.

You want to calculate when you should shift, run it through a TQ multiplier spreadsheet that calcs tq in every gear at each RPM up to fuel cut.

I get a lot of people asking how my brother and I run 14.1 with stock B16s. It definitely isn't our driving, but it's easy... take it to ultra-high RPM. The engine makes no power, but the torque multiplication through the transmission makes for a damn fast combo. Moving the redline from 8000 to 8500 yielded a 0.2s decrease in 1/4 mile time from my experience, even though the cams peak at 7500 and power falls off after that. It feels slow as hell but the results speak for themselves.

 

I need to raise my rev limiter! Is there a "free" way to remove or raise on stock P13?

 

BTW, I'd shift right at redline on Darknights dyno...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Daily Interlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW, I'd shift right at redline on Darknights dyno...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, next time I hit the track I'm going to try out a few things, hopefully I'll see more than the two ******* runs that I got at Moroso last time.

I'm going to shift at these points:

1- 8200
2- 8200
3- 7800-8000 (depending how long I'm in it)

The reason I'm going shift sooner on 3rd gear is b/c I don't want that kind of extra stress in the higher gear. It's a lot more load on the motor than either 1st or 2nd.

Btw, last time I was at the track I was untuned, so it won't really be a great comparison, but we'll see.

 

Can't wait to see your new times!

 

"The reason I'm going shift sooner on 3rd gear is b/c I don't want that kind of extra stress in the higher gear. It's a lot more load on the motor than either 1st or 2nd."

the tranny nor the gearing can put any more stess than the motor can produce, so feel free to shift at the higher rpm in 3rd.

you probably won't believe me but it's a fact. gears, tranny's, driveshafts, tires ect.. can only resist the power being delivered by the motor.

oh, and you will have faster ET's if you shift @ 7600-7700rpm.

make sure you post you time slips. in a civ this car should be running low 13's on street tire considering i ran 13.8's with only 176wHP in a 2600lb 00 Civ.

these are just recommendations from a person who has over a thousand passed in many cars. take them or leave them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickeng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh, and you will have faster ET's if you shift @ 7600-7700rpm.

make sure you post you time slips. in a civ this car should be running low 13's on street tire considering i ran 13.8's with only 176wHP in a 2600lb 00 Civ.

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13.8 on street tires? That's darn good considering a friend in a stripped H22 hatch with slicks runs 13.8! But I guess the track plays a big part of it.

But I still have to disagree on shifting point. The power the motor is making after engagement when shifting at 7700rpms is way lower than the power it's making at 7700-7900 (up to redline).

 

how well you can shift plays a big part when picking the correct shift point. if you are a slow shifter than you will have to shift at a higher rpm. if your not a fast shifter than you should practice before racing because shifting is is at least half the battle.

when i turbo'ed the same car i ran 11.8's on 22" slicks and 12.2's on street tires with only 325wHP weight 2700lbs. so i would have to say i drive well and just want to help darknight run faster.