It also makes A differance N.A. or blown .But I would have to say on the bad *** turbo deals 2 or 3 pass's ,N.A. all weekend.And make sure you shut it off on gas.And drain the lines. Within 2 or 3 days or it turns to sand.Shut it off on gas so it wont rust the cyl.s You shouldnt run these thin heads dry becouse they get hot spots and pockets and they just wont warm even .Also you need cylinder head temp. or it wont make **** for power With M.F.I. you can turn the fuel shut off in to lean it out so it will warm up.Or you can shut off the fuel and warm it on gas with a squirt bottle .It gets hot real fast.


Modified by popnbang at 3:12 PM 11/3/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by popnbang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You shouldnt run these thin heads dry becouse they get hot spots and pockets and they just wont warm even [/i]</TD></TR></TABLE>


not so sure i'm on the same page??????

 

Go back A page about 3 or4 deals down ,then read carefully.And(back to alki)
if you put about 8 ounces to a gallon of propolene Oxide And about 5% that alcohol
works a ton better.You thought burn your eyes!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by popnbang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Go back A page about 3 or4 deals down ,then read carefully.And(back to alki)
if you put about 8 ounces to a gallon of propolene Oxide And about 5% that alcohol
works a ton better.You thought burn your eyes!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>


i don't understand what you are trying to say?

 

never mind

 

How much fuel do you Pro Stock guys consume between staging lane warm up and your 1/4 pass?

 

Thats fuel guys .Pro stock drinks gas.Running 85% they use more volume ,But almost 30gals.You can't pour it out that fast.They are running the same volume of
fuel as if it was 98% the rest is alcohol.Hows this you have a five gallon can
full of nitro to get 85% you put in about one an a half caps full of alcohol. and if you ever have a chance to mix fuel make sure you dont put to much alcohol in.
becouse it takes a **** load more nitro to get back up.If someone mess's up we just use it to warm up with if its not to bad.

 

I was refering to Honda Pro Stocks and when I said fuel I meant meth not nitro.

I am aware that Powerade Pro Stock cars run gas. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Oh **** sorry about A gallon.exactly double of gas.A/F is 6/1 .Alcohol has A lot bigger tuning window

 

How long does it take for methanol to contaminate your oil...

It depends on the following conditions.

1. Oil system: How much oil do you run in your car. For example if you run a dry sump system then chances are you probably won't have to change your oil for a few runs. However, if you are running the factory oil pump and oil volume i would definitely recommend cahnging it every pass.
2. Clearances and ring gaps: Obviously this has already been mentioned but can't be stresed enough. The loser your clearance the heavier weight oil is recommended.
3. Engine tune up: I swear if I can get a dollar for every person that tells me that you have to run your engine rich if you run methanol or ethanol I'd be rich! There is a little something call Brake specific Fuel Consumption that I think most people forget to take into consideration. Before you start tuning an engine the specfic number BSFC has to be carefully calulated in order to properly set up your tune. Things such as bore X stroke injector sizing, max torque and HP all have to be considered. I see so many damn cars out there spewing fuel out of their exhaust at idle and they wonder why they are washing out the rings on their engine! Hmm could it be too rich??

Remember this, we are generations away from the old two valve engines with poor combustion designs. Most of the import engines are so damn efficient oldschool V8 guys are jealous of the awsome base platforms that we have. Their rules regarding tuning alcohol does not necessary apply with ours. Do your research and break out your old dusty calulators.

 

If your talk ing about me I think your lost.First off I never said any thing about a tune up .and your right about the 2 valve deals but do you think I quit learning when 4valves came out. I own a 4valve motor that makes 1396hp n.a. on gas
thats gasoline.I have had blown alcohol deals and I raced speedway motorcycles
for years, on alcohol not only that but A 4valve Jawa has the same bore stroke as A GSR.You can try to put this old guy down ,but your wasting your time.

 

popnbang, I don't think that was directed toward you...

 

I dont know it sure sounds like it. If not, oops If so I rest my case.
Thank you Tony thats pretty cool of you.

 

who is this guy

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by motecnate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Their rules regarding tuning alcohol does not necessary apply with ours. Do your research and break out your old dusty calulators.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

btw what should be my target A/F??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prostockcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

btw what should be my target A/F??</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont think the dynojet can read that low. but if i'm not mistaken it goes a little suttin like this.......

Lambda A/F Gas A/F Alcohol
0.70 10.3 4.5
0.75 11.0 4.8
0.80 11.8 5.1
0.85 12.5 5.4
0.90 13.2 5.8
0.95 14.0 6.1
1.00 14.7 6.4
1.05 15.4 6.7
1.10 16.2 7.0

what engine management are you using?? v-pro?


Ed-

 

Tony, you saved us from having a tragic waste of time argument over nothing. Yo! BTW give me a call at the office so you can let me know some gossip that is going on down there in Texas.

popnbang, I don't know who you are but don't get me wrong I give mad props to V8 guys and I work with them all day long here at Motec. What was trying to say and not directed at anyone in particular is V8 rules don't necessary apply to us. Every fuel and tuning book out there that you read will give you numbers but a lot of those publications are so damn old you can't rely on their techniques entirely. When I say break out your calulators I really mean use them. Not enough racers out there use them. The answers to most of your questions lies within those calculations.

NA 4 cyl cars I try and reach an A/F of around 5.8-6.1 on alcohol. You might have to go richer than 5.8 but if you have to well there might be something that needs adjustment. Don't necessary look at your A/F I recommend paying close attention to how much fuel your are pushin into your engine base on your duty cycle and pulse width calculation. Checks and Balances. A/F does not tell the whole story.

There are some great publications out there for everyone to read I will post them up when I get home.

 

you know the dynojet won't read that low....lol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ModenaTwinTurbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


what engine management are you using?? v-pro?


Ed-</TD></TR></TABLE>

if i told you, you would laugh your *** off,,,,so i won't...

 

Motecnate: Everything's cool.Like you said, thanks to Tony.I guess getting older makes you paranoid.I picked A bad week to quit huffing paint.I was wondering
what you were talking about because I told him 6/1.I could have told him, you
want the cad just to start blistering on the sparkplug(NGK)Well anyway glad it did'nt get out of hand.Thanks.

 

Its all good man!

Here are some great titles to read regarding racing engines.

"Four Stroke Performance Tuning" by A.Graham Bell

"Forced Induction Performance Tuning" by A.Graham Bell

There are a lot more titles out there i have to keep digging them up. People who live in So cal, Super Autobacs has the best selection on racing tech books.

 

Note on wideband O2....

our NA methanol motor makes max power around 12.8:1 (displayed o2) reading on any of our 3 wideband meters. I use the Innovate to track datalog, Autronic on our DynoDynamics 2wd and Motec on the Mustang. The Autronic (UEGO) unit has settings for Propane, Meth, Petrol, etc. but I just use it in the dyno at the factory settings.

The first time my friend tuned his Methanol civic on the mustang dyno, he was so confused... hehe. He made a couple of passes on gas, then switched to meth. (after doubling his 'overall fuel cal' setting). He was freaking out when it gained 15hp, but still displayed about the same 12.7 a/f ratio.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ProfessorNate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Note on wideband O2....

our NA methanol motor makes max power around 12.8:1 (displayed o2) reading on any of our 3 wideband meters. I use the Innovate to track datalog, Autronic on our DynoDynamics 2wd and Motec on the Mustang. The Autronic (UEGO) unit has settings for Propane, Meth, Petrol, etc. but I just use it in the dyno at the factory settings.

The first time my friend tuned his Methanol civic on the mustang dyno, he was so confused... hehe. He made a couple of passes on gas, then switched to meth. (after doubling his 'overall fuel cal' setting). He was freaking out when it gained 15hp, but still displayed about the same 12.7 a/f ratio. </TD></TR></TABLE>

ever use a dynojet wideband??