Hello all my fine acceleration freaks. Over the years that I have raced with all you sport compact racers, I have told many of you to deep stage to cut a good reaction light. Now that we have this forum I can hum about deep staging again. I know I'm going to sound repetative but if you can't cut a .09 light or less you more then likely are going to lose the round. By deep staging you roll into the first staging lite and then roll through the second staging lite and turn off the top staging lite. You should have DEEP writen on your windshield so the starter knows you are going to deep stage. If you are consistantly cutting .2 to .3 lites deep staging should bring you into the .09 to .15 range, maybe better. There is a down side to deep staging in that your et will be a little slower but if you're a bracket racer it doesn't matter. If you see me at the races next year and need some advice don't be shy and ask me.

Happy motoring, Jim

 

Jim and Happy Holidays.


John
M&H

 

Back at ya, John.

 

Good topic.
I'll add a few things.
I believe deep staging is only allowed on a sportsman, 5-tenths tree. I don't think you are ever allowed to deep stage in heads up racing and you'll turn DQ yourself with an automatic red.
It's mainly used or only used in bracket racing where total package, RT+ET, means a lot more than a quick ET. You also have to remember that you have a better chance of red-lighting.
With either light, 4 or 5-tenths, the driver must leave before seeing the green. I think that's where most will pick up their RT.

 

You're correct Hideki in that most races don't allow deep staging on a pro lite. However some sanctioning bodies do. A racer should always check the rules of the race.

 

you should work on a faster reaction instead of using the deep light as a crutch. if You get used to deep staging, you will be behind when the race doesn't allow it

 

A crutch? Sorry....I do not think so. Deep staging is just another OPTION in playing the GAME that is bracket racing. Crutch? A delay box is a crutch! Go tell some of these big dollar bracket racers who go deep that they have a crutch.

Going deep can help in a lot of situations. One in particular is if you are racing a vehicle that either has a lot of roll out (big front tire) or weighs a lot (does not re act fast) or a vehicle that just does not have a good initial first move (first 5 feet of the track it is just a slug) Going deep allows you to overcome those obstacles and cut a better light. Example-- i have raced 3 street, bone stock automatic vehicles this year. A 2002 chevy blazer, a 2006 saturn Ion and a1993 chevy corsica. You know what the first thing I did was? deep on the window and go off the bottom bulb. I know I can hit the tree consistantly on the bottom bulb but it is just not good enough. So I react to the same spot in the tree each time, but going deep gives me that better reaction time. So instead of maybe being .90 or .100 it is now a .30 or .40. Bingo. No crutch. Just experience

PROUD TO GO DEEP!


Modified by OldskoolVW at 7:33 AM 11/22/2007

 

Good debates on both sides. Although, today is thanksgiving day so i feel the need to keep everyone in positive spirits. So.. "When in doubt, GO DEEP" she'll thank you for it.
heh

 

Ah ha ha, "When in doubt, GO DEEP" she'll thank you for it. Good one Wade.

 

it appears you are going deep because you can't react as good on both bulbs. if you work on being able to cut a good reaction on both bulbs, you will cut a good light when you go to a race that does not allow you to deep stage instead of getting beat by someone that can.
and yes, i think it is a crutch that you are using because you can't cut a good light. most of us race heads up on a pro tree that won't allow us to deep stage. we have to practice to cut a light, not look for ways around the fact that we can't cut a good light.

 

Wow...I just go told I can't cut a good light. I do beleive you are wrong. Practice? I have a practice tree I mess around with each week and I believe this year I made over 230 passes down the track...including two .000 lights and many .00's
If I had to run a Pro tree, I would set up my car to react quick and cut a good light on the .400 pro tree without deep staging. Remember, going deep is not just about "finding an easy way out". Reaction time is more then just seeing a bulb and going. It is about how quick the CAR itself reacts, front tire size, starting line launch RPM, suspension set up, how quick a clutch releases or a converter reacts in an automatic...a whole lot of things you can adjust. But when you race a bone stock vehicle and can not adjust much, going deep is a huge help. Even some racecrs that are set up, people choose to go deep....not as a crutch, or because they can't re act.....but because that is what works for them and gets a good reaction time.
GOING DEEP IS NOT A CRIME!!!!

If you are a good racer, you can cut a good light no matter what. Ok, so if I show up and someone says you can't go deep, no problem. I adjust and overcome. I will go shallow and maybe bump in a little farther to the beam. Raise launch RPM to get the car to re act quicker. Leave a little sooner in the bulb sequence. Any one of those small adjustments to make up for not going deep and still cut a good light.


Hell I can race without going deep. I can cut a good light without going deep. But I choose to because it works for me BETTER and when you bracket race, you try and be as good as you can be. Just my opinion and I GO DEEP

 

this is a quote from the original post:
"I know I'm going to sound repetative but if you can't cut a .09 light or less you more then likely are going to lose the round. By deep staging you roll into the first staging lite and then roll through the second staging lite and turn off the top staging lite."
i am not going to argue that you can make adjustments by deep staging.i am not trying to argue that you can't cut a good light. the original post was telling people to deep stage if they can't cut a good light. most of the people on this forum race heads up, not bracket racing anyway. so what good would deep staging do since all it would do is give you a red light?

 

Basically all humans react pretty much the same, especially drag racers. The problem is machanical. If you're racing on a pro lite and you can't get your car to cut a good lite you need to do some homework and correct the problem. This usually means $$$$$$$$$. If you're like me you have baby arms, you know what I mean, your arms are so short they won't reach your wallet.

 

Yes...MOST people on the forum race heads up...not ALL. Jim was simply giving advice to the bracket racers out there. I am pretty sure the heads up guys who read the board didnt look at the topic and go "Gee...I guess I will try and go deep next race and see what happens on my pro tree" because they KNOW BETTER! It was just some simple advice to the bracket guys out there looking to get better.
And come on...we all know going deep slows down your actual elapsed time anyhow. So why would any of the heads up guys even think about going deep anyhow?!?! Doesn't make sence

 

I would listen to Jim Gillum....... Jim with his Orange Karmann Gia is one of the west coasts most feared bracket racers. He has sent me home early twice already

 

sorry, first time i have ever seen anybody talking about bracket racing on this forum. you come on here with 10 posts and just tell everybody to deep stage. maybe it should have said something to let us know it was directed to bracket racers? sorry, i wasn't trying to get anybody fired up

 

 

bracket racing is for stock cars because theres no point in any other type in there.

 

Welcome to Honda-Tech Jim. This is a good drag racing forum once you sift through all the muck There are lots of people from different automotive backgrounds. Hope you stick around....

 

Guy's PLEASE keep a open mind here PLEASE. Jim is a well sepected man in the world of drag racing. Jim is giving out some info here, that alloooooooot of racers would NOT. Maybe some of you drivers do not need this GOOD info, but there is aloooooot of drivers out there that are new at this sport that can.

Keep it cool.

Be SAFE and GOOD LUCK in 08.

John
M&H

 

When you deep stage i believe you will have a slower mph, due to the fact that your shortening the length of the track. Not much but it will still affect it.

 

great post, im sure that the people who are interested in winning will pay attention, staging is very important stradagy.

if you want to win learn as much as you can,

even heads up two bulbs lit you can deep stage, its all about knowing your car. (2 bulbs lit and saying "deep stage" are not possible) its about percision, testing, track conditions. etc. knowing your car and what it will do.

lots of info to learn. rt is most important in close races. learn as much as you can

ive cut many .001's and many .999's never any .000's




Modified by shant at 8:22 PM 11/23/2007

 

With all these honda guys so close in E.T's Most races are won or lost off the tree.

 

Deep staging is not a cheat nor a crime.

Somebody once said Bracket racing is a game and some people have been playing it a lot longer than others. I believe this to be true. Knowing how you react , knowing your car/ shift points, adjusting dial in for weather/alt / track conditions. It all takes knowledge, no matter how much people think it doesnt.

And deep staging is just another way of playing and/or adjusting to win this "game."

Its like pulling up to a heads up race with street tires and telling the guy next to you on slicks that he is cheating. NO, he just found a better way to beat you. Which is exactly what deep staging can be if used correctly.

/rant

 

Deep staging must be legal on a pro tree, or I would have been DQ'ed at more
then a few race's... A foot braked automatic can leave pretty slow sometimes..