weedburner

I'm looking to prototype a bolt-in clutch release controller for a Honda application. Which model/year should i start with? Here's a link that explains what the controller does... LINK

Thanks.

luck4rmkc

iTrader: (2)

That is ghetto... Get one of these

Products - Flow Control Valve - Clutch Masters

It works very well. Tilton also makes a version.

weedburner

Those seem like logical solutions, but both slow down the entire release travel of the clutch pedal, including the part at the bottom before the clutch begins to grab. Do you want to slow that down as well?

My controller is 2 stage. There is no delay on the initial release of the pedal. You can adjust how hard the clutch initially hits (the point where delay begins), and separately adjust the rate that additional clutch pressure is applied from that point on.

I have a customer in the UK with a 1200hp Subaru Impreza Time Attack car. He was running 8.20's @ 173 at the drags and had the Subaru record, but was breaking parts. He began experimenting with my clutch slip controller on his pedal, a month later he's running 7.74 @ 179. I thought it might work on a Honda as well.

JDMekB20

I heard a few teams were already doing this in 2014. I guess from all the records, it works lol.

SwappedTURBOegg

start with civic they are all the same mostly 92 to 2000 civics and integras minus the da

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

I used one from a BMW E46 before to test in my Honda before, and did not like the delay in the pedal return, but worked for what was intended for. and because I took it out my BMW I could compare the difference with and without.

DA-NINE

Something like this controlled by hondata or a progressive controller would work. Line lock solenoids and flow control valve are cheap and it can be put together with brass fittings.

weedburner

You need a reference to clutch position, which in-line restrictor does not have. Without it you cannot enjoy the benefits of independently adjusting (1) the clutch's initial hit and (2) rate of additional pressure application from that point on. This allows the clutch to hit hard and quick without fully locking up. After the initial hit, the delay cylinder then takes over and controls how quickly additional clutch pressure is applied. This allows you to independently delay the clutch's final lockup to a point farther down the track. The engine maintains a higher rpm off the line, eliminating the bog. The car also still 60's strong, as the clutch didn't initially hit too soft.

DA-NINE

Instead of a clutch position sensor you could use your vss. Or even better reference your vss and rear wheel speed sensor for your tcs. And control the clutch with a few of these restrictor in parallel for a multi stage application. And even an active clutch release system.

The easiest setup for 99% of people with limited data logging parameters would be to have it 2 or 3 stage, hold(for conversation purpose) 50 percent slip until 3 or 4 mph, then click the solenoids via your ems to either a second stage restrictor with less slip then at 15mph (again for conversation) then give it the full flow un restricted.


If you have a sophisticated enough system you could have slip zones by using your rear wheel speed sensors and tire diameter to monitor distance from launch. And have restrictors set up for different zones. 0-10ft 10-20ft etc. It's limitless once you can actively control clutch release.

Tyler Dirden

iTrader: (3)

I love this topic! Please continue and put some for instances in play to reflect on.
I am willing to create a system like this for constancy sake in my drag car.

weedburner

To have an active system, i would think you would need something like an abs pump in the system.

I've had my 2 stage slip controller on my shop mule RX-7's clutch pedal since 2011. The big benefit for me is that the controller allows launching the car without losing rpm. This eliminates that axle breaking inertia induced "torque spike" that typically occurs shortly after launch. The car runs 5.73 w/ a 1.30 60' when launching from 4000rpm on a good track, but i can also do low .8G launches from down around 2000rpm for no-prep or street racing, still dead hooking without rpm loss or a bog.

Tyler Dirden

iTrader: (3)

This topic is awesome. I'm surprised it has eluded me over the years. It seems that it would be an ideal add on to any street/race car that was looking for consistent launches.

miller

The problem isn't making a device to slip the clutch, the problem is a clutch that can live with the slipping.

I have a lot of data on slipping the clutch and once you surpass a certain amount of slip you can kiss the plates goodbye.

DA-NINE

Are there any clutches that could handle the heat?

NWDyno

Yes there is. And it's not from your typical comp clutch or Tilton company.

Tyler Dirden

iTrader: (3)

Well which one will as advertised be able to?

I found the flow control valve for 25 bucks and a line lock solenoid for 65 made of stainless steel. A few fittings and some 4an line there and back will do it.
Ima try this just on a street stock clutch for fun, not racing it but for a resonable experiment and a consistent first gear pull away.

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

Sachs clutches custom made. they makes OEM clutches for the European performers.

Tyler Dirden

iTrader: (3)

Iv'e put a few of those in turbo VWs. Didn't think they worth 800 dollars but no complaints from the customers.

nonvtecallmotor

I was getting ready to post the same thing. I don't have as much data as you but I've burnt a few disk up in a hurry...


IMO most people can get better results with just basic track tuning. Track tuning shouldn't be confused with dyno tuning.

weedburner

Most clutch slip that is caught on a data logger is from a clutch that is operating near it's limits. It has no reserve capacity.

My slip controller allows you to choose a clutch with more capacity than you would normally choose. Typically that clutch would be too aggressive, but the addition of the first stage of the slip controller provides the ability to apply only partial pressure initially, allowing slip. The second stage allows additional pressure to come in over time to insure lockup farther down the track.

Tyler Dirden

iTrader: (3)

I am digging what you say about the over aggressive clutch being made to slip (with reserve capacity) and having a crap load of clamp available for the gears down the road. Can you put some info up about this system or PM me if you want. I love a good deate and current attempts to make things better.

NWDyno

Some clutch slip between gears is beneficial...if the clutch is completely locked up, all its doing is bogging down the engine and killing et. But using a valve to tune it is not the correct way. Using the pressure plate to tune is.

nonvtecallmotor

This is the problem. Cars are now making 1000+WHP and only have so much room in the bell housing. Cant get any more aggressive with the pressure plate before it knocks the trust out..

Tyler Dirden

iTrader: (3)

Couldn't an additional machining step be made to add a HD thrust bearing to the flywheel/block area? Like a special rear seal plate that allows for the heavy pressure application. Probably just easier to replace the thrust bearing from time to time durring routine maintenance.

How does one go about tuning a pressure plate for activation?
Isn't it simply set to a specific pressure and then the driver decides what level of engagement is satisfactory for each gear?
That IMO, being the case, is a reasonable attempt to control the activation through a controlled release mechanism.

In top fuel dragsters, this is the Holy Grail. Clutch engagement through a controlled mechanism. This seems like a simple progression for deep nine cars or quicker looking for consistency. Slipping the clutch has to happen one way or another. I hope we all can agree on that. You just can't side step 1st gear and go. Talent is acquired over a long period of practice. Devices like this can remove a lot of driver error and make a better/ safer car to drive. Years ago I was all like no way to the stutter boxes and electronic interface going on in drag racing, but now I see it is the natural progression of the sport. Without such systems there is NO WAY a turbo honda could be in the 8s. These ECUs control fuel mapping and timing and boost per gear and fail safes and traction control devices and on and on. Why not integrate it with the clutch activation as higher levels of the sport have found a performance advantage there?

miller

The "twins" that are available to the market can work to some extent. The "floaters" are thick enough to deal with some heat. You just need a different material on the pad surface. But the twin plates are limited in what they can hold power wise. The triples hold the power but can't be slipped as much do to how thin the everything is. I have another set of triples with some different materials that I need to test but just haven't had the car together in almost 3 years so its all been at a stand still.

And clutch slip on the shifts is not beneficial. Id rather control power with other things then a slipping clutch. Only for the initial 50-100ft would I want to slip the clutch.