whine from speakers
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From: st.louis, mo, usa
whine from speakers
i just bought a 89 crx with no radio....i recently added 2 front speakers, a pioneer headunit and 1 12'' sub...and i noticed that when i have the radio turned down i can hear a whine that increases with the rpm comming from the speakers
thoughts?
thoughts?
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From: garland, tx
like sony said better ground ...i would use a new ground for your cd player also move your rca away
from power wire plus make the amp ground wire
as short as possible....if the problem keep on get some new rcas
from power wire plus make the amp ground wire
as short as possible....if the problem keep on get some new rcas
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From: md
Re: (92civeg)
just keep messing with the ground. Its a ground issue. Simple as that. Its receiving some type of power on the other end (theres pos and neg) which is neg that makes a whining noise due to the power of the motor and alternator. ground ground ground.
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From: st.louis, mo, usa
Re: (keemosaki)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by keemosaki »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just keep messing with the ground. Its a ground issue. Simple as that. Its receiving some type of power on the other end (theres pos and neg) which is neg that makes a whining noise due to the power of the motor and alternator. ground ground ground.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ground at the headunit or ground at the amp?
ground at the headunit or ground at the amp?
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From: PA, USA
Re: (92civeg)
what antenna are you using, antennas have ground so if you have just a wire for the radio then its prolly your antenna if theirs no ground on the antenna it will make that noise as well, if you have a stock antenna that is not hooked up then try that see if that works...
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From: CT
Re: (92civeg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92civeg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ground at the headunit or ground at the amp?</TD></TR></TABLE>
try both
ground at the headunit or ground at the amp?</TD></TR></TABLE>
try both
Old Fart
Joined: May 2004
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From: kelowna, bc, canada
Re: whine from speakers (92civeg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92civeg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i just bought a 89 crx with no radio....i recently added 2 front speakers, a pioneer headunit and 1 12'' sub...and i noticed that when i have the radio turned down i can hear a whine that increases with the rpm comming from the speakers
thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE> There are a number of reasons that noise gets into the system, and different kinds of noise, what you are describing sounds like " alternator whine" to see/hear what it is, and how it's getting into the system I have to have more info......
1-Model of HU, [what is the model of the Pioneer HU]
2- Make and model of amp.
3- Is the amp just powering the sub, or the sub and speakers?
4- Is the noise on the sub and the front 2 speakers, or just the sub or just the front speakers?
5- What are you using for power and ground wiring for the amp, [gauge of wire]
6- What are you using for RCAs from the HU to amp?
7- How and where have you run the power wire and the RCAs?
8- How and where is the amp grounded, [what is the ground wire connected to and how, and how long is the ground wire?
9- How and where is the amp mounted?
It is important to know the above 9 questions to determine why you have noise and how it is getting into the audio system.
To determine what kind of noise it is start the car and set the system so you can hear the noise, you have already said it's a whine that increases with rpm.
When you say whine do you mean a whistling, siren kind of sound the changes pitch as you rev the motor a little, and that gets louder as you load up the alt., [turn on things in the car, head lights, high beams, rear window defog, step on brake heater blower motor]? "alternator whine", [only present with motor running]
Or is it more of a buzz or whir that increases in speed as the rpm go up? "ignition noise", [only present with motor running]
Another thing to try is with the ign. on but motor not running and audio system on, [the same way it is when you hear the "whine" when motor is running] turn things no and off, [any electrical switch, step on brake, turn on signal lights/hazard lights, rear window defog] can you hear anything, ["pops" or "crackles"] from the speakers? "switching noise", [can be present with motor running or not]
Most noise problems in cars are caused by "ground loops" that is a difference in ground potential between different components of the audio system, good grounding normally solves a "ground loop", but sometimes no matter how good the grounds are you still have a "ground loop" sometimes it takes running a ground wire between the HU chassis and the amp chassis, [this does not have to be thicker then 18/16ga] caution doing so can cause a "ground loop" just as likely as getting rid of one, or do nothing at all.
The other most common way noise gets into the system is "induced" or radiated, and in a car the most common way is when RCAs are run along with power wires, [any power wires not just the amps power lead] running the RCAs down the drivers side of a CRX, ["power side" all the power leads for the back of the car run down the drivers side] it can induce both alt. whine and/or switching noise into the system, answer the above 9 questions, and I can probably help you get rid of the noise.
94
thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE> There are a number of reasons that noise gets into the system, and different kinds of noise, what you are describing sounds like " alternator whine" to see/hear what it is, and how it's getting into the system I have to have more info......
1-Model of HU, [what is the model of the Pioneer HU]
2- Make and model of amp.
3- Is the amp just powering the sub, or the sub and speakers?
4- Is the noise on the sub and the front 2 speakers, or just the sub or just the front speakers?
5- What are you using for power and ground wiring for the amp, [gauge of wire]
6- What are you using for RCAs from the HU to amp?
7- How and where have you run the power wire and the RCAs?
8- How and where is the amp grounded, [what is the ground wire connected to and how, and how long is the ground wire?
9- How and where is the amp mounted?
It is important to know the above 9 questions to determine why you have noise and how it is getting into the audio system.
To determine what kind of noise it is start the car and set the system so you can hear the noise, you have already said it's a whine that increases with rpm.
When you say whine do you mean a whistling, siren kind of sound the changes pitch as you rev the motor a little, and that gets louder as you load up the alt., [turn on things in the car, head lights, high beams, rear window defog, step on brake heater blower motor]? "alternator whine", [only present with motor running]
Or is it more of a buzz or whir that increases in speed as the rpm go up? "ignition noise", [only present with motor running]
Another thing to try is with the ign. on but motor not running and audio system on, [the same way it is when you hear the "whine" when motor is running] turn things no and off, [any electrical switch, step on brake, turn on signal lights/hazard lights, rear window defog] can you hear anything, ["pops" or "crackles"] from the speakers? "switching noise", [can be present with motor running or not]
Most noise problems in cars are caused by "ground loops" that is a difference in ground potential between different components of the audio system, good grounding normally solves a "ground loop", but sometimes no matter how good the grounds are you still have a "ground loop" sometimes it takes running a ground wire between the HU chassis and the amp chassis, [this does not have to be thicker then 18/16ga] caution doing so can cause a "ground loop" just as likely as getting rid of one, or do nothing at all.
The other most common way noise gets into the system is "induced" or radiated, and in a car the most common way is when RCAs are run along with power wires, [any power wires not just the amps power lead] running the RCAs down the drivers side of a CRX, ["power side" all the power leads for the back of the car run down the drivers side] it can induce both alt. whine and/or switching noise into the system, answer the above 9 questions, and I can probably help you get rid of the noise.
94
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From: Beavertown, OR
Re: whine from speakers (fcm)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The other most common way noise gets into the system is "induced" or radiated, and in a car the most common way is when RCAs are run along with power wires, [any power wires not just the amps power lead] running the RCAs down the drivers side of a CRX, ["power side" all the power leads for the back of the car run down the drivers side] it can induce both alt. whine and/or switching noise into the system, answer the above 9 questions, and I can probably help you get rid of the noise. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>
ummm.....I have to make a comment. This always bugs me. Point your thumb in the direction of the current now curl your fingers. Your fingers point in the direction of the electric field. If you were to creat a loop with the RCA wire then the field has an area to flow through. This is know as electric flux which follows Gauss's law.There is one other requirement, the flux needs to change. Either the loop need to change or the field needs to change. Since the loops is constant the field would have to change. Change in field infers an AC signal. Power wire is DC, Current will change by a slight amount. But the area of a RCA laid right next to a power wire is to small to produce any significant noise.
We also must remember the current flows in a loop it must start and stop at the same spot. Current that flows from the + travels through the wire then back up through the frame into the battery then back to the + terminal. In other words the same current that flows through the power wire flows through the frame.
In my current stereo I have a $10 15 foot RCA zip tied right next to the power wire all the way back to the sub amplifier. Its an old Autotek 100, absolutely no whining noise period.
You have a bad ground or a defective rca.
94</TD></TR></TABLE>ummm.....I have to make a comment. This always bugs me. Point your thumb in the direction of the current now curl your fingers. Your fingers point in the direction of the electric field. If you were to creat a loop with the RCA wire then the field has an area to flow through. This is know as electric flux which follows Gauss's law.There is one other requirement, the flux needs to change. Either the loop need to change or the field needs to change. Since the loops is constant the field would have to change. Change in field infers an AC signal. Power wire is DC, Current will change by a slight amount. But the area of a RCA laid right next to a power wire is to small to produce any significant noise.
We also must remember the current flows in a loop it must start and stop at the same spot. Current that flows from the + travels through the wire then back up through the frame into the battery then back to the + terminal. In other words the same current that flows through the power wire flows through the frame.
In my current stereo I have a $10 15 foot RCA zip tied right next to the power wire all the way back to the sub amplifier. Its an old Autotek 100, absolutely no whining noise period.
You have a bad ground or a defective rca.
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From: st.louis, mo, usa
Re: whine from speakers (nsxxtreme)
i had this exact setup in my 91 crx and i didnt get any whine at all.,...i switched it to my current 89 crx and now it whines so i dont think its defevtive equipment...i think ill try another ground right now its grounded to to where the rear shock meets the body...anyone else have a better ground spot?
Old Fart
Joined: May 2004
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From: kelowna, bc, canada
Re: whine from speakers (nsxxtreme)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ummm.....I have to make a comment. This always bugs me. Point your thumb in the direction of the current now curl your fingers. Your fingers point in the direction of the electric field. If you were to creat a loop with the RCA wire then the field has an area to flow through. This is know as electric flux which follows Gauss's law.There is one other requirement, the flux needs to change. Either the loop need to change or the field needs to change. Since the loops is constant the field would have to change. Change in field infers an AC signal. Power wire is DC, Current will change by a slight amount. But the area of a RCA laid right next to a power wire is to small to produce any significant noise.
We also must remember the current flows in a loop it must start and stop at the same spot. Current that flows from the + travels through the wire then back up through the frame into the battery then back to the + terminal. In other words the same current that flows through the power wire flows through the frame.
In my current stereo I have a $10 15 foot RCA zip tied right next to the power wire all the way back to the sub amplifier. Its an old Autotek 100, absolutely no whining noise period.
You have a bad ground or a defective rca.</TD></TR></TABLE> I understand that, and have heard and been told many times that RCAs running next to power wires is not a problem, [and can't be because of reasons you give] and have run RCAs and power wires together many times without any problems, [even when using inexpensive home audio RCAs] but as an installer with many years of experience and countless numbers of noise problem issues brought to me and on many of those occasions just rerunning the RCAs away from amp power cables and/or away from the cars power side has solved alt. whine and switching noise problems.
As mentioned in my post I know that most noise problems are caused by grounding problems. but experience tells me that it is not always the case.
94
ummm.....I have to make a comment. This always bugs me. Point your thumb in the direction of the current now curl your fingers. Your fingers point in the direction of the electric field. If you were to creat a loop with the RCA wire then the field has an area to flow through. This is know as electric flux which follows Gauss's law.There is one other requirement, the flux needs to change. Either the loop need to change or the field needs to change. Since the loops is constant the field would have to change. Change in field infers an AC signal. Power wire is DC, Current will change by a slight amount. But the area of a RCA laid right next to a power wire is to small to produce any significant noise.
We also must remember the current flows in a loop it must start and stop at the same spot. Current that flows from the + travels through the wire then back up through the frame into the battery then back to the + terminal. In other words the same current that flows through the power wire flows through the frame.
In my current stereo I have a $10 15 foot RCA zip tied right next to the power wire all the way back to the sub amplifier. Its an old Autotek 100, absolutely no whining noise period.
You have a bad ground or a defective rca.</TD></TR></TABLE> I understand that, and have heard and been told many times that RCAs running next to power wires is not a problem, [and can't be because of reasons you give] and have run RCAs and power wires together many times without any problems, [even when using inexpensive home audio RCAs] but as an installer with many years of experience and countless numbers of noise problem issues brought to me and on many of those occasions just rerunning the RCAs away from amp power cables and/or away from the cars power side has solved alt. whine and switching noise problems.
As mentioned in my post I know that most noise problems are caused by grounding problems. but experience tells me that it is not always the case.
94
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Beavertown, OR
Re: whine from speakers (fcm)
Try this next time you have this issue that you can solve by moving the RCA wire.
With the seats removed move your RCA wire from the center of the car (which is how you solved the noise problem) back next to the power wire without diconnecting the RCA from either end. See if you can make the noise come back.
The point on this excercise is to prove to yourself its not the RCA.
With the seats removed move your RCA wire from the center of the car (which is how you solved the noise problem) back next to the power wire without diconnecting the RCA from either end. See if you can make the noise come back.
The point on this excercise is to prove to yourself its not the RCA.
Old Fart
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 26,173
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From: kelowna, bc, canada
Re: whine from speakers (nsxxtreme)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try this next time you have this issue that you can solve by moving the RCA wire.
With the seats removed move your RCA wire from the center of the car (which is how you solved the noise problem) back next to the power wire without diconnecting the RCA from either end. See if you can make the noise come back.
The point on this excercise is to prove to yourself its not the RCA. </TD></TR></TABLE> LOL already been done, on many occasions to show customers with noise problems we will pull door sill and lift RCAs out of sill, [next to the amps power cable and/or the drives side oem power wires] and about 50% of the time, what do you know, noise gone, put the RCAs back and there's the noise again, you have to show customers that the 1-2 hr. you are going to charge them to rerun the RCAs is because they need to be rerun.
Believe me your not the only one telling people that the RCAs location is not the problem, we get customers that had there systems installed someplace else and could not fix the problem and insisting to the customer that the way the RCAs are run is not the problem and can't be the problem, and of coarse telling us that he/see is not going to pay to have the RCAs moved because that can't possibly be the problem, only to have a stunned look on their face when we show them by just lifting the RCAs away from the power wires the noise is gone.
As I keep saying it is not always the case, I have run power and RCAs together and not had any noise problems, but when a car comes into our shop, [or any of our shops] the first thing that is checked is the grounds then we check the RCAs and far too many times has to problem been the RCAs run with power wires, that our install policy is that we never run RCAs and power together. 94
With the seats removed move your RCA wire from the center of the car (which is how you solved the noise problem) back next to the power wire without diconnecting the RCA from either end. See if you can make the noise come back.
The point on this excercise is to prove to yourself its not the RCA. </TD></TR></TABLE> LOL already been done, on many occasions to show customers with noise problems we will pull door sill and lift RCAs out of sill, [next to the amps power cable and/or the drives side oem power wires] and about 50% of the time, what do you know, noise gone, put the RCAs back and there's the noise again, you have to show customers that the 1-2 hr. you are going to charge them to rerun the RCAs is because they need to be rerun.
Believe me your not the only one telling people that the RCAs location is not the problem, we get customers that had there systems installed someplace else and could not fix the problem and insisting to the customer that the way the RCAs are run is not the problem and can't be the problem, and of coarse telling us that he/see is not going to pay to have the RCAs moved because that can't possibly be the problem, only to have a stunned look on their face when we show them by just lifting the RCAs away from the power wires the noise is gone.
As I keep saying it is not always the case, I have run power and RCAs together and not had any noise problems, but when a car comes into our shop, [or any of our shops] the first thing that is checked is the grounds then we check the RCAs and far too many times has to problem been the RCAs run with power wires, that our install policy is that we never run RCAs and power together.
94
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Beavertown, OR
Re: whine from speakers (fcm)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As I keep saying it is not always the case, I have run power and RCAs together and not had any noise problems, but when a car comes into our shop, [or any of our shops] the first thing that is checked is the grounds then we check the RCAs and far too many times has to problem been the RCAs run with power wires, that our install policy is that we never run RCAs and power together. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>
The fact that you can take an exact same setup and put it another vehicle with no problems should tell you something.
When you move an RCA wire you haven't solved the problem you have only masked the problem.
You still have a ground loop. My NSX was a pain, when I got it it whined like crazy. Someone hooked the factory deck up to an amplifier. The problem was the speaker + and - aren't really + and -. A little rewire and some new grounds poof noise gone. Obviously not all problems will come down to this, but somewhere you can always find a hidden ground loop.
If your up to challenges challenge yourself to find it.
Sometimes the actual equipment is at fault. I had a kicker amp I redesigned the preamp circuit because of this. I have also seen defective RCA's cause this. Another one is if you have a large metal connector on the RCA and it comes in contact with the car ground it will cause a ground loop. RCA ground is not always the same as the car ground. Or a worn amp the RCA connector can have a bad solder joint, possibly cracked slightly. Which causes the annoying sometimes it whines sometimes it doesn't.
The fact that you can take an exact same setup and put it another vehicle with no problems should tell you something.
When you move an RCA wire you haven't solved the problem you have only masked the problem.
You still have a ground loop. My NSX was a pain, when I got it it whined like crazy. Someone hooked the factory deck up to an amplifier. The problem was the speaker + and - aren't really + and -. A little rewire and some new grounds poof noise gone. Obviously not all problems will come down to this, but somewhere you can always find a hidden ground loop.
If your up to challenges challenge yourself to find it.
Sometimes the actual equipment is at fault. I had a kicker amp I redesigned the preamp circuit because of this. I have also seen defective RCA's cause this. Another one is if you have a large metal connector on the RCA and it comes in contact with the car ground it will cause a ground loop. RCA ground is not always the same as the car ground. Or a worn amp the RCA connector can have a bad solder joint, possibly cracked slightly. Which causes the annoying sometimes it whines sometimes it doesn't.
Old Fart
Joined: May 2004
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From: kelowna, bc, canada
Re: whine from speakers (nsxxtreme)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The fact that you can take an exact same setup and put it another vehicle with no problems should tell you something.</TD></TR></TABLE> Yea, sometimes the car is the problem.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When you move an RCA wire you haven't solved the problem you have only masked the problem.</TD></TR></TABLE> How is getting rid of the noise, "masking it"?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You still have a ground loop. My NSX was a pain, when I got it it whined like crazy. Someone hooked the factory deck up to an amplifier. The problem was the speaker + and - aren't really + and -. A little rewire and some new grounds poof noise gone. Obviously not all problems will come down to this, but somewhere you can always find a hidden ground loop.</TD></TR></TABLE> Unless it is noise induced into the system, on an 87 Ford Pickup/Bronco noise is induced right into the HU from the OEM harness that runs up to the left side of the HU then over the top and down the right side of the HU, [kind of a half loop] only way I have ever been able to get rid of the noise is to move the portion of oem harness that goes over the HU to behind the HU, again noise gone not masked.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your up to challenges challenge yourself to find it.</TD></TR></TABLE>LOL, like we don't do that on a daily bases nowadays, in fact that is about all I do now as a consultant, as I am on long term med. leave, I do so for a few places in town and all our outlets, keeps me busy.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sometimes the actual equipment is at fault. I had a kicker amp I redesigned the preamp circuit because of this. I have also seen defective RCA's cause this. Another one is if you have a large metal connector on the RCA and it comes in contact with the car ground it will cause a ground loop. RCA ground is not always the same as the car ground. Or a worn amp the RCA connector can have a bad solder joint, possibly cracked slightly. Which causes the annoying sometimes it whines sometimes it doesn't.</TD></TR></TABLE> Now that I agree with totaly. 94
The fact that you can take an exact same setup and put it another vehicle with no problems should tell you something.</TD></TR></TABLE> Yea, sometimes the car is the problem.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When you move an RCA wire you haven't solved the problem you have only masked the problem.</TD></TR></TABLE> How is getting rid of the noise, "masking it"?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You still have a ground loop. My NSX was a pain, when I got it it whined like crazy. Someone hooked the factory deck up to an amplifier. The problem was the speaker + and - aren't really + and -. A little rewire and some new grounds poof noise gone. Obviously not all problems will come down to this, but somewhere you can always find a hidden ground loop.</TD></TR></TABLE> Unless it is noise induced into the system, on an 87 Ford Pickup/Bronco noise is induced right into the HU from the OEM harness that runs up to the left side of the HU then over the top and down the right side of the HU, [kind of a half loop] only way I have ever been able to get rid of the noise is to move the portion of oem harness that goes over the HU to behind the HU, again noise gone not masked.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your up to challenges challenge yourself to find it.</TD></TR></TABLE>LOL, like we don't do that on a daily bases nowadays, in fact that is about all I do now as a consultant, as I am on long term med. leave, I do so for a few places in town and all our outlets, keeps me busy.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sometimes the actual equipment is at fault. I had a kicker amp I redesigned the preamp circuit because of this. I have also seen defective RCA's cause this. Another one is if you have a large metal connector on the RCA and it comes in contact with the car ground it will cause a ground loop. RCA ground is not always the same as the car ground. Or a worn amp the RCA connector can have a bad solder joint, possibly cracked slightly. Which causes the annoying sometimes it whines sometimes it doesn't.</TD></TR></TABLE> Now that I agree with totaly.
94
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,143
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From: Beavertown, OR
Re: whine from speakers (fcm)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> How is getting rid of the noise, "masking it"?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because you haven't got rid of the problem (a ground loop). You have moved it away from a noise source. The ground loop is still there. This is like putting stop leak in a radiator. The place that is leaking still isn't fixed which could cause additional problems down the road. A ground loop could also cause additional problems down the road.
On the Ford I would get a service manual and look for an AC wire in that group of wires. There isn't much else you can do with an AC signal that passes by the RCA or radio other then what you have already done.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because you haven't got rid of the problem (a ground loop). You have moved it away from a noise source. The ground loop is still there. This is like putting stop leak in a radiator. The place that is leaking still isn't fixed which could cause additional problems down the road. A ground loop could also cause additional problems down the road.
On the Ford I would get a service manual and look for an AC wire in that group of wires. There isn't much else you can do with an AC signal that passes by the RCA or radio other then what you have already done.
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From: Locash
Re: whine from speakers (nsxxtreme)
I agree with fcm here 100%, in fact I was dealing with this very problem tonight. Our senior installer put a full system into a car: deck, front components, rear speakers, 4 channel amp, 2 channel with subs, distro block, high end RCAs. Surprised as hell to have very bad engine noise, and circumstances left me handling the problem.
The grounds were perfect. Everything was textbook, with speaker wire, remote wire, RCAs down one side of the car, power down the other side. RCA ends taped up. I experimented with the grounds a bit. No effect. I moved the wires around a bit as there was excess wiring under the rear seat. No effect. Then I plugged in another set of RCAs, supposedly same quality but they looked a bit more solid IMO. The noise disappeared. Ran it through the car and sure enough it's as if there was never any engine whine. There was nowhere along the rca routing that made me think perhaps the rca's got pinched or grounded.
Oh and the reason you don't have engine whine with your sub is because subs don't reproduce that frequency. You never have that problem. We ALWAYS run RCAs and power wires together for subs unless the mids will also be hooked up to an amp. We NEVER run them closer than 18 inches for 5/4ch or 2ch with speakers hooked up. And yes these are probably false statements but if you do quality work and use half decent brands, you don't have a problem with noise on subs.
Theory is never a substitute for real world experience, especially when time and money are on the line. Challenge yourself my ***. The customer wants their car fast, and everyone behind them wants their car fast. They don't give a rats *** about the technically correct solution, and neither does the business world. And I work at a reputable shop that does quality work! Not that bullshit we handle every day from someone else's dissatisfied customers.
**Back to the original post. You have whine on the front speakers, but they're not amped, correct? If you unplug the sub, there's no whine? If this is the case, then everyone has misunderstood your problem. Try replacing your spark plug wires.
The grounds were perfect. Everything was textbook, with speaker wire, remote wire, RCAs down one side of the car, power down the other side. RCA ends taped up. I experimented with the grounds a bit. No effect. I moved the wires around a bit as there was excess wiring under the rear seat. No effect. Then I plugged in another set of RCAs, supposedly same quality but they looked a bit more solid IMO. The noise disappeared. Ran it through the car and sure enough it's as if there was never any engine whine. There was nowhere along the rca routing that made me think perhaps the rca's got pinched or grounded.
Oh and the reason you don't have engine whine with your sub is because subs don't reproduce that frequency. You never have that problem. We ALWAYS run RCAs and power wires together for subs unless the mids will also be hooked up to an amp. We NEVER run them closer than 18 inches for 5/4ch or 2ch with speakers hooked up. And yes these are probably false statements but if you do quality work and use half decent brands, you don't have a problem with noise on subs.
Theory is never a substitute for real world experience, especially when time and money are on the line. Challenge yourself my ***. The customer wants their car fast, and everyone behind them wants their car fast. They don't give a rats *** about the technically correct solution, and neither does the business world. And I work at a reputable shop that does quality work! Not that bullshit we handle every day from someone else's dissatisfied customers.
**Back to the original post. You have whine on the front speakers, but they're not amped, correct? If you unplug the sub, there's no whine? If this is the case, then everyone has misunderstood your problem. Try replacing your spark plug wires.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Beavertown, OR
Re: whine from speakers (suspendedHatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The grounds were perfect. Everything was textbook, with speaker wire, remote wire, RCAs down one side of the car, power down the other side. RCA ends taped up. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Speaker wire is AC if I had to choose a wire not to put next to an RCA this would be it.
Look up DC transformer let me know what you find.
If we can agree that we can take a setup place it in one car, car A the exact same way it is in another car, car B. One will whine one wont. Can we agree on this?
Now what has changed? The car? Electrically nothing has changed (that you know of). The same current the passes down the power wire in car A will pass down the power wire in car B. Induced noise is a function of AC. The noise that get induced into a RCA functions the same way a transformer works. Let me know what you come up with on a DC transformer.
I am not saying noise cant be induced into a RCA by placing it next to a DC power wire. Because in reality there are changes in current on that wire. What I am saying is the noise that you can pick up is insignificant to the source signal, exspecially on a 4v preout. Hmmm why do you think they made this volatge higher then the normal 1-2v home audio setup? What I am trying to say is the whining you hear is more the likely a ground loop hidden in the system somewhere.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then I plugged in another set of RCAs, supposedly same quality but they looked a bit more solid IMO. The noise disappeared. </TD></TR></TABLE>
As I mentioned before some RCA's are defective. If you would like to play with a serious ground loop take a kicker 4 channel and plug the RCA's into channel 3-4. Leave channel 1-2 open. Come back and tell me why you have whine.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Oh and the reason you don't have engine whine with your sub is because subs don't reproduce that frequency. You never have that problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Subs can produce these frequencies. Not as efficiently as a mid or tweeter but they still produce these frequencies. I can still hear engine whine from a sub lol.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Theory is never a substitute for real world experience, especially when time and money are on the line. Challenge yourself my ***. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Some people like to learn instead of doing things just because without ever understanding why. :Learning is usually done on your own time. Most companies aren't going to pay you to learn.
Modified by nsxxtreme at 12:34 AM 5/4/2006
Speaker wire is AC if I had to choose a wire not to put next to an RCA this would be it.
Look up DC transformer let me know what you find.
If we can agree that we can take a setup place it in one car, car A the exact same way it is in another car, car B. One will whine one wont. Can we agree on this?
Now what has changed? The car? Electrically nothing has changed (that you know of). The same current the passes down the power wire in car A will pass down the power wire in car B. Induced noise is a function of AC. The noise that get induced into a RCA functions the same way a transformer works. Let me know what you come up with on a DC transformer.
I am not saying noise cant be induced into a RCA by placing it next to a DC power wire. Because in reality there are changes in current on that wire. What I am saying is the noise that you can pick up is insignificant to the source signal, exspecially on a 4v preout. Hmmm why do you think they made this volatge higher then the normal 1-2v home audio setup? What I am trying to say is the whining you hear is more the likely a ground loop hidden in the system somewhere.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then I plugged in another set of RCAs, supposedly same quality but they looked a bit more solid IMO. The noise disappeared. </TD></TR></TABLE>
As I mentioned before some RCA's are defective. If you would like to play with a serious ground loop take a kicker 4 channel and plug the RCA's into channel 3-4. Leave channel 1-2 open. Come back and tell me why you have whine.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Oh and the reason you don't have engine whine with your sub is because subs don't reproduce that frequency. You never have that problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Subs can produce these frequencies. Not as efficiently as a mid or tweeter but they still produce these frequencies. I can still hear engine whine from a sub lol.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Theory is never a substitute for real world experience, especially when time and money are on the line. Challenge yourself my ***. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Some people like to learn instead of doing things just because without ever understanding why. :Learning is usually done on your own time. Most companies aren't going to pay you to learn.
Modified by nsxxtreme at 12:34 AM 5/4/2006
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 1
From: Beavertown, OR
Back to the original poster. You mentioned you dont have an antenna. Why?
Some stereo's circuity also pull ground from the Antenna wire. If its not there you will have a ground loop. Try connecting an antenna or buy a wire antenna and connect the shield of the antenna to ground.
Some stereo's circuity also pull ground from the Antenna wire. If its not there you will have a ground loop. Try connecting an antenna or buy a wire antenna and connect the shield of the antenna to ground.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2003
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From: st.louis, mo, usa
Re: (nsxxtreme)
also i just noticed today that if i have the radio turned down really low like the volume on #1 i car hear the sub just ideling but its pretty loud (hope that makes sense)
i dont have an antenna because the car didnt have a factory radio. i just added a radio. i will add an antenna soon
i havent tried anything yet its not a huge problem i just wanted to get some ideas of what to check as soon as i get a chance
thanks
i dont have an antenna because the car didnt have a factory radio. i just added a radio. i will add an antenna soon
i havent tried anything yet its not a huge problem i just wanted to get some ideas of what to check as soon as i get a chance
thanks
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 1
From: Beavertown, OR
Re: (92civeg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92civeg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i just bought a 89 crx with no radio....i recently added 2 front speakers, a pioneer headunit and 1 12'' sub...and i noticed that when i have the radio turned down i can hear a whine that increases with the rpm comming from the speakers
thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Touch the ground of the RCA near the amplifier with your finger does it hum when you do this?
thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Touch the ground of the RCA near the amplifier with your finger does it hum when you do this?