Alternators
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Sacramento, Ca, USA
Alternators
So I was asked to start my own thread.
Contacted Boss Load alternators and had a discussion with one of the guys.
Was told that the honda alternator will not charge at idle. They said it will charge around 800 rpms.
checked this on the car using a multi meter and found it actually won't charge untill around 11-1200 rpms.
So I would not be willing to idle the car up just so the alternator will charge the car.
It already has a very small pulley on the unit.
so in stop and go traffic, how is this not damaging to the battery.
Forcing it to cycle more than what it was designed to do.
Now I am not a noob coming into this.
11 years experience in shops. MECP basic.
I am going off what I am seeing from a meter, and what the manufacturer told me.
I don'e compete so I am doubting the need for this alternator all together. Especially if it will not charge at idle.
I use to say this is the sollution for high wattage systems.
but if I am running a 1100 watt amp at moderate listening levels thats roughly about 30 amps of consumption. So whats the point.
It seems to me that this alternator will not be the best choice for daily driving. Maybe for long freeways drivers. But in town, just seems like it isn't go to do the job they are suppose to do.
Contacted Boss Load alternators and had a discussion with one of the guys.
Was told that the honda alternator will not charge at idle. They said it will charge around 800 rpms.
checked this on the car using a multi meter and found it actually won't charge untill around 11-1200 rpms.
So I would not be willing to idle the car up just so the alternator will charge the car.
It already has a very small pulley on the unit.
so in stop and go traffic, how is this not damaging to the battery.
Forcing it to cycle more than what it was designed to do.
Now I am not a noob coming into this.
11 years experience in shops. MECP basic.
I am going off what I am seeing from a meter, and what the manufacturer told me.
I don'e compete so I am doubting the need for this alternator all together. Especially if it will not charge at idle.
I use to say this is the sollution for high wattage systems.
but if I am running a 1100 watt amp at moderate listening levels thats roughly about 30 amps of consumption. So whats the point.
It seems to me that this alternator will not be the best choice for daily driving. Maybe for long freeways drivers. But in town, just seems like it isn't go to do the job they are suppose to do.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 310
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From: US
Re: Alternators (cujo613)
does the battery need to be continuously charged if the stereo is off? will it not be?
i dont plan on listening to my music loud as hell while im in stop and go traffic, at stop lights, in neighborhoods, or on crowded roads, dont want to be one of those guys
if the system is not drawing much power from the alt wont the remainder be enough for the batt.?
youre making it sound like this alt will eat my batt no matter what i do
i dont plan on listening to my music loud as hell while im in stop and go traffic, at stop lights, in neighborhoods, or on crowded roads, dont want to be one of those guys
if the system is not drawing much power from the alt wont the remainder be enough for the batt.?
youre making it sound like this alt will eat my batt no matter what i do
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 1
From: Beavertown, OR
Re: Alternators (cujo613)
What reading are you using that says it's not charging?
A battery can drop to 10V meaning even if you see 12V it could still be charging the battery.The only correct way to tell if your alternator is charging is to measure the current going through the charging wire. There is a difference between "charging" and supply enough current to satisfy the load needs.
Lastly you could always go with a smaller pulley which would spin the alternator faster instead of raising the rpms in the car.
I'm not sure why someone at a specialty alternator shop would say such a thing. Must have been sniffing paint fumes that day. Leave your car running at idle and disconnect the battery. Does your car still run? Now flip on the head lights. If your car hasn't died then its doing it's job.
A battery can drop to 10V meaning even if you see 12V it could still be charging the battery.The only correct way to tell if your alternator is charging is to measure the current going through the charging wire. There is a difference between "charging" and supply enough current to satisfy the load needs.
Lastly you could always go with a smaller pulley which would spin the alternator faster instead of raising the rpms in the car.
I'm not sure why someone at a specialty alternator shop would say such a thing. Must have been sniffing paint fumes that day. Leave your car running at idle and disconnect the battery. Does your car still run? Now flip on the head lights. If your car hasn't died then its doing it's job.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 29
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From: Sacramento, Ca, USA
Re: Alternators (nsxxtreme)
I am measuring with a multi meter on the charging wire while disconecting the batter. (for as long as the car is running) The output is zero
The pully from the manufacturer is already small. I don't see how putting a smaller pulley on it is even worth it.
I don't listen to my music loud either. But the point is if your are under 1100 rpm there is no charging to the system, requiring the battery to do all the work.
The pully from the manufacturer is already small. I don't see how putting a smaller pulley on it is even worth it.
I don't listen to my music loud either. But the point is if your are under 1100 rpm there is no charging to the system, requiring the battery to do all the work.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,006
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From: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Re: Alternators (cujo613)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cujo613 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am measuring with a multi meter on the charging wire while disconecting the batter. (for as long as the car is running) The output is zero</TD></TR></TABLE>
How exactly are you measuring this?
Leave the battery connected. With the car off, measure the voltage. Should be about 12-12.5v. Then start the car, and measure the voltage again. Should be around 14v. If the voltage is any higher with the car running than with it off, the alternator is charging.
How exactly are you measuring this?
Leave the battery connected. With the car off, measure the voltage. Should be about 12-12.5v. Then start the car, and measure the voltage again. Should be around 14v. If the voltage is any higher with the car running than with it off, the alternator is charging.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,407
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From: Locash
Re: Alternators (02 accord)
It's charging at idle. Stop talking crazy.
Don't disconnect your battery while the car is running. Take that as a rhetorical explanation.
Honda keeps the alternator output at a minimum for maximum gas mileage. The alternator is pulse width modulated. It's going to maintain a minimum charge no matter what. If you're battery is charged enough, it's barely going to do anything. Cruising on the highway it barely does anything.
You and your mechanic friend need to stop generalizing about other cars because Hondas are not other cars.
Don't disconnect your battery while the car is running. Take that as a rhetorical explanation.
Honda keeps the alternator output at a minimum for maximum gas mileage. The alternator is pulse width modulated. It's going to maintain a minimum charge no matter what. If you're battery is charged enough, it's barely going to do anything. Cruising on the highway it barely does anything.
You and your mechanic friend need to stop generalizing about other cars because Hondas are not other cars.
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,143
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From: Beavertown, OR
Re: Alternators (cujo613)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cujo613 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am measuring with a multi meter on the charging wire while disconecting the batter. (for as long as the car is running) The output is zero</TD></TR></TABLE>
You do realize the cars ignition sytems needs 12V for the car to run right
?
So if you disconnected your battery and you measured 0V there is no way for your car to stay running it would die immediatley. I think you guys have been hitting the crack pipe one to many times LOL.
Either that or you dont know how to use a DMM.
My car stays running just fine with the battery disconnected, I can even turn my headlights on *Disclaimer, dont try this at home you can damage your alternator*. Tell your friend in the alternator business to start looking for a new job cause he is an idiot. Either that or he just wants to sell you an alternator LOL.
You do realize the cars ignition sytems needs 12V for the car to run right
?So if you disconnected your battery and you measured 0V there is no way for your car to stay running it would die immediatley. I think you guys have been hitting the crack pipe one to many times LOL.
Either that or you dont know how to use a DMM.
My car stays running just fine with the battery disconnected, I can even turn my headlights on *Disclaimer, dont try this at home you can damage your alternator*. Tell your friend in the alternator business to start looking for a new job cause he is an idiot. Either that or he just wants to sell you an alternator LOL.
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From: 99 probs but a stolen car aint 1, ca, cerritos/fullerton
Re: Alternators (nsxxtreme)
^^^^^ you beat me to the point, I was about to post the same thing. How and the hell is the car running with the battery off and the alternator putting out Zero. 
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 29
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From: Sacramento, Ca, USA
Re: Alternators (nsxxtreme)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You do realize the cars ignition sytems needs 12V for the car to run right ?
So if you disconnected your battery and you measured 0V there is no way for your car to stay running it would die immediatley. I think you guys have been hitting the crack pipe one to many times LOL.
Either that or you dont know how to use a DMM.
My car stays running just fine with the battery disconnected, I can even turn my headlights on *Disclaimer, dont try this at home you can damage your alternator*. Tell your friend in the alternator business to start looking for a new job cause he is an idiot. Either that or he just wants to sell you an alternator LOL.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well, I would say theres possibly discharge from the caps that could provide power for the 10 seconds or so.
So with the battery connected, the voltage stays at the same reading of what the battery checked without the car started.
again there is no increase in voltage till about 1100 rpm's.
yes I think I know how to use a dmm
I don't have a mechanic friend, the info I got was from the manufacturer of Boss-Load alternators.
As for the zero output let me rephrase that, It is roughly 8.5-9.5 volts until the car dies
So thats where I came up with the zero, I considered the little voltage trickle from what was left in the caps.
You do realize the cars ignition sytems needs 12V for the car to run right
?So if you disconnected your battery and you measured 0V there is no way for your car to stay running it would die immediatley. I think you guys have been hitting the crack pipe one to many times LOL.
Either that or you dont know how to use a DMM.
My car stays running just fine with the battery disconnected, I can even turn my headlights on *Disclaimer, dont try this at home you can damage your alternator*. Tell your friend in the alternator business to start looking for a new job cause he is an idiot. Either that or he just wants to sell you an alternator LOL.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well, I would say theres possibly discharge from the caps that could provide power for the 10 seconds or so.
So with the battery connected, the voltage stays at the same reading of what the battery checked without the car started.
again there is no increase in voltage till about 1100 rpm's.
yes I think I know how to use a dmm
I don't have a mechanic friend, the info I got was from the manufacturer of Boss-Load alternators.
As for the zero output let me rephrase that, It is roughly 8.5-9.5 volts until the car dies
So thats where I came up with the zero, I considered the little voltage trickle from what was left in the caps.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 1
From: Beavertown, OR
Re: Alternators (cujo613)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cujo613 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, I would say theres possibly discharge from the caps that could provide power for the 10 seconds or so.
So with the battery connected, the voltage stays at the same reading of what the battery checked without the car started.
again there is no increase in voltage till about 1100 rpm's.
yes I think I know how to use a dmm
I don't have a mechanic friend, the info I got was from the manufacturer of Boss-Load alternators.
As for the zero output let me rephrase that, It is roughly 8.5-9.5 volts until the car dies
So thats where I came up with the zero, I considered the little voltage trickle from what was left in the caps.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Please stop posting you have no idea what your talking about.
If your car dies then you alternator is bad.
The info you got from Boss-Load alternators is wrong.
So with the battery connected, the voltage stays at the same reading of what the battery checked without the car started.
again there is no increase in voltage till about 1100 rpm's.
yes I think I know how to use a dmm
I don't have a mechanic friend, the info I got was from the manufacturer of Boss-Load alternators.
As for the zero output let me rephrase that, It is roughly 8.5-9.5 volts until the car dies
So thats where I came up with the zero, I considered the little voltage trickle from what was left in the caps.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Please stop posting you have no idea what your talking about.
If your car dies then you alternator is bad.
The info you got from Boss-Load alternators is wrong.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,006
Likes: 4
From: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Re: Alternators (cujo613)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cujo613 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, I would say theres possibly discharge from the caps that could provide power for the 10 seconds or so.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Caps where? There is not enough capacitance in the car to keep it running for 10 seconds.
Caps where? There is not enough capacitance in the car to keep it running for 10 seconds.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 1
From: Beavertown, OR
Re: Alternators (CoolRedXylophone)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CoolRedXylophone »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my stock alt was rated at 60 amps
does that mean at idle it was putting out 60 amps?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, this rating is usually for 1200 rpms or above. That does not mean it puts out no current at idle. It just means that for maximum output the rpms need to be raised.
I'm only guessing here because I have never measure the max current capacity at idle but I'm guessing your alternator is probably good for 70% of its max output at idle. This is done to conserve gas.
does that mean at idle it was putting out 60 amps?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, this rating is usually for 1200 rpms or above. That does not mean it puts out no current at idle. It just means that for maximum output the rpms need to be raised.
I'm only guessing here because I have never measure the max current capacity at idle but I'm guessing your alternator is probably good for 70% of its max output at idle. This is done to conserve gas.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, Ca, USA
Re: Alternators (nsxxtreme)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Please stop posting you have no idea what your talking about.
If your car dies then you alternator is bad.
The info you got from Boss-Load alternators is wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>
wow
so you have more skills than the manufacturer and designer of the alternator that I am running. Thats impressive.
Guess I should have said it was a boss load alternator that I ordered from 4alterstart.com
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Caps where? There is not enough capacitance in the car to keep it running for 10 seconds.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That would be the 2 1 farad caps that I have in the system.
Please stop posting you have no idea what your talking about.
If your car dies then you alternator is bad.
The info you got from Boss-Load alternators is wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>
wow
so you have more skills than the manufacturer and designer of the alternator that I am running. Thats impressive.
Guess I should have said it was a boss load alternator that I ordered from 4alterstart.com
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Caps where? There is not enough capacitance in the car to keep it running for 10 seconds.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That would be the 2 1 farad caps that I have in the system.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 1
From: Beavertown, OR
Re: Alternators (cujo613)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cujo613 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so you have more skills than the manufacturer and designer of the alternator that I am running. Thats impressive.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Either that or you misunderstood the guy. Its not surprising at all.
People that answers the phones are usually sales reps. I have a BS in EE and working on my MS. But it does not take a degree to know you have your facts wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cujo613 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That would be the 2 1 farad caps that I have in the system.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
So you have what maybe 1us at most a couple ms of reserve?
Lol capacitors are not batteries.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Either that or you misunderstood the guy. Its not surprising at all.
People that answers the phones are usually sales reps. I have a BS in EE and working on my MS. But it does not take a degree to know you have your facts wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cujo613 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That would be the 2 1 farad caps that I have in the system.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
So you have what maybe 1us at most a couple ms of reserve?
Lol capacitors are not batteries.
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