tales sol

Since i recently dropped a supertech valve and mashed everything i own into oblivion, its time to start building again!

I had plans of running Pro2s as soon as i could afford some but i have now picked up a head cheap off a friend which has Skunk2 Tuner springs and Ti retainers.

Is it a bad idea to run Pro cams on Tuner springs or should i maybe go with stg3 Tuner cams??

Engine is 82mm B18c, 13:1 CR, Magnus IM, Bisi copy header (for now)

Would like to see 220-230whp

Daily Driver but built for drag!

My other question is, i was going to purchase Fererra valves and keepers, but would i be better getting Skunk2 valves instead to keep it all the same??

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

I read somewhere that you could get away with the Pro1 on the tuner spring, but I dunno if thats true. It would be worth the money to get the correct VT, the Pro cam is gonna kill that S2S3 in the midrange.

OneBadTurboCRV

You can run all the "Pro" camshafts (1, 2, and 3) with the "Tuner Series" valve springs.

http://store.skunk2.com/engine-tunin...mshafts-1.html

You will be limited with RPM though. You should just get matching springs - Tuner Cam = Tuner springs / Pro cam = Pro Springs...

OP - Do you really want to do this for a third time?

tales sol

^^^^^
Do you mean do i want to build again or do i want to have it fail again??

I see now where it says the requirement for the pro cams is at least tuner springs.

And that the tuner springs are safe to 10,000 RPM.

My rev limit has never been over 9,300 anyway so would it be safe?

If skunk2 say Tuner springs with Pro cams is ok, is the only drawback the 10,000 RPM limit of the springs?

rich7777

I'd just buy the pro series springs if i were you. They made them for a reason....

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I think that you are ok in this case especially if all the difference is the spring seat pressure for 10,000 Rpms. Vs. 9300

tales sol

So Shodan, you think it will be ok to run the pro2s with the tuner springs as long as i am only revving to 9300??

I have emailed skunk2 also but im waiting on a reply!

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

I would wait until you actually hear from S2 themselves. Personally I would not trust the tuner spring with the ramp rate of the Pro cam.

abs0Lut

I have the answer from a employee, they dont recommend it. tuner should only be run with tuner, pro with pro.

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

Thats what I thought they would say^^

dustin528

I called skunk2 sometime last year about this. They told me you could get away with using pro1's and tuner springs but wouldn't do anything more. Pro2's and pro3's need pro series springs.

I have never heard the tuner series were only good to 10k. I remember when i bought them they said good to 12k rpms. I've been revving to 10k with them for about 3-4 years now. I just recently bumped my rev limiter up to 10.5k as it seems my car is still making power past 10k. Is anyone using the tuner series and revving higher than 10k??

I will be calling skunk2 about this tomorrow!!! haha

OneBadTurboCRV

Call them, if the information is different than what I posted then tell them to change their OUT-DATED website. It clearly states that you can run the "Tuner" series on ALL of their camshafts and the "Pro" valve springs were "optional/recommended". If the business wants to lie about what is required on their own website then what does this say about the company?

95 integra

iTrader: (2)

If they stated you can run the Pro cams with the Tuner springs why would anyone upgrade and/or buy the more expensive ones? It all falls back on marketing and stating what they need to to sell more products.

Valve springs are very simple items, you have 3 important factors
Spring rate
Seat pressure
Coil Bind

At the end of the day you have lift and RPMs that effect the need for "stiffer" springs. Ramp rate seems to be more reliant on Seat pressure.

How did you drop a valve in the first place?

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

Those are not the only things to consider when it comes to VT bud. The Tuner spring is made of a lower quality material than the Pro, there were several threads back in the day of the tuner springs breaking. And those cams were smaller than the Pro series. Also the retainer design is a factor. The Pro series is a snap-fit, the tuner I believe is not. Tuner VT is some oooooolld technology, unless S2 went back and redesigned for some reason.

tales sol

Ok well i got a reply and as expected they said no and to only use the pro series springs, which, as stated, is contradicting what it says on their website it the Pro series cam section, more specifically, even under the pro2 cam it says tuner springs are a requirement!!

It clearly should not say that if the say they wont work!!

@ Dustin, 10,000rpm is what it says on their website but obviously going on the above, they like to give false information or at least contradict themselves on what the site does say!

@ 95 integra, i had a supertech valve fail and ruin my motor, only to find out later on here that they are not quite up to the quality of their other products!!

So, now that im back to square one, should i go with a set of Tuner3s to match the springs i already have, or have to save even more to buy pro2s AND pro springs??

clean rice........ you said i will lose midrange with the tuner3 over the pro2, is this due to the higher lift/more duration dropping the effective CR??

I also have a set of KMS springs (supertech) How would they be suited to the pro2s?

I was running pro1s but my intake one is worn on one of the vtec lobes, im not sure if it might have anything to do with the springs or not?

And lastly, will i gain much with the pro2 over the pro1s? If not i could just buy another intake pro1 and stick with them?

Thanks for the help too guys!

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

For your review..... these are general statistics on what is claimed.

http://www.skunk2.com/CookBook.php

tales sol

Thanks, i have looked through the cook book, none of the engines are really very similar to my own!

As for the info there on Pro1 vs Pro2, i find it hard to tell from there since there was other parts changed out along with the cams too!
Or maybe im just failing to see what i should be seeing? :/

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

-The Pro series was designed with the intent to gain more power "under the curve" and give our motors more of a usable powerband. The ramp rate, besides the obvious lift/duration, is the biggest difference between the Pro and Tuner. The Pro is gonna open that valve allot quicker. The primaries on the Pro cam are larger than the Tuners, hence more torque/power throughout the rpm range. The Tuner3 is advretised as bigger lift than the Pro2, but I would call the Pro2 a bigger cam that the S2S3.

What was your valve lash set at?

I've seen the 2 look just like the 1 up until the 1 peaks, the 2 keeps going.

If I were you, I would check my VT and have them measured. Assuming they were ok, I would then contact ALL M0T0R and see if he would sell you a custom intake cam. Or buy a Pro2 intake, keep the 1 exhaust.

tales sol

Ok, thanks for clearing that up!

So you think I should check my supertech springs and use them?

I should get supertech retainers tho go with them instead of using the skunk ones i have?

I don't think there is anyone over here that will be able to professionally check those springs for me or can I do it myself?

And I will definitely. Ask all motor about a cam too

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Its just a general guideline. They'd never have enough specifics to have it like yours. The only point of it was to show the power ranges for each cam type, and what MINIMUM was needed in order to achieve that safely.

Good luck.. keep it going...

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

I just now realized you were over seas. Woops. What I mean by measuring them is to find out for sure what the coil bind and seat pressure is. At that point you will know for sure what profile you can run and what you cannot. Shipping to S2 wouldn't be that expensive, and if they turn out defective...maybe they could cut you a deal on some new Pro springs. They don't charge much to measure.

Retainer wise, I thought all Supertech was snap-fit. If the S2 retainers are not, you NEED to get the ST retainers.

tales sol

Well the skunk2 retainers i have now are not snap fit with the tuner springs i have??

I must check them with the KMS/ST springs i have!

I wonder would it be possible to maybe "ghetto" check the coil bind using a dial gauge and something to compress the spring in the head???

Cash/time is gonna be tight to get this ready for April/May so i might not have time to be sending stuff to the states to be checked out