Ryanthegreat1

Anyone out there with a 2004-06 TSX want to log some can bus data and share it with me?

Reward is the checksum needed to write can bus data.

I have the Cluster and ECU reverse engineered but I am missing the VSA and Muliplex for cruise control and AC.

I just need a raw data dump of AC on and AC off and maybe a drive around the block activating cruise control once.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I will say this time and time again. There is no CAN-BUS system in any TSX until 2010-2011 years. You will not find a log about what you're looking for...

Ryanthegreat1

Yes there is. It is not on the DLC until 2007.

F-CAN and B-CAN are both present. That is how I am driving my 2006 S2000 cluster in an Insight with a TSX drive train.

TSX F-CAN > Arduino > S2000 serial

tech8

You'll probably have better luck finding someone locally and asking them if you could log the data.

The following is just for informational purposes only.

This is the multiplex narrative from the 2004-2005 TSX ETM:








This next narrative is from the 2006-2008 TSX ETM:

Ryanthegreat1

Thanks! I have an 04 and 06-07 ETM and they have the same data.

Thinking about finding a TSX on a lot to "test drive" for 20 minutes. Would be easiest on an 07 but not sure if they changed the CAN bus data. I know 04 and 06 are the same but requires probing the bus at the ECU.

I know what the cluster is sending to the ecu to request cruise control but I suspect I am missing the VSA data to pipe in. Cruise won't work if VSA/ABS light is on.

Also not exactly sure how HVAC and mulitplex play together to request AC on through the cluster to get to the ECU. I do know the cluster is the gateway between F-CAN and B-CAN.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

No. It's not. It's an earlier adoption version of current CAN-BUS system that is now used, but only limited to the Guage control module, and not to the Actual main ECM.

That's like saying that a divided housing and a "Twin Scroll" housing are one and the same. They aren't. They may appear to be that way from some of the main elements, but not for what us engineers and legal-tech consultants would call true "CAN-BUS".

This version created one of the first systems that simply went into present day Body-Module, HVAC, and ABS modules, but all are still independent of one another, and not interlaced as in current 2012+ CAN-BUS standard systems.
Honda was always creative and inventive, and finally mastered a lot of things before other manfacturers had stepped-up their game. After the hiccups of 2009-2011, they finally got some help via Denso, and got it right again.

So, yes. I'm a snob about it. It's F-CAN & B-CAN logging, and not a true CAN-BUS system. As long as you have the answer that you need, really all the technicality is moot.
Regardless, I'll have the title changed to have the more appropriate information so as not to add to confusion.

Carry on.

Ryanthegreat1

What?

F-CAN is absolutely 100% CAN-BUS. Uses standard CAN bus data packets and protocols. Just because only a few devices are on the network does not mean it is not real CAN bus.

You can take any off the shelf CAN bus reader and read the data. To me that is CAN bus.

Now B-CAN is not CAN bus, it is a serial interface but I don't really care what is on that bus, does not apply to my project.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

If you say so...

I've already tapped the data in my own TSX before I sold it as an example of an effort to work with that system in comparison to current IEEE standards as to what CAN-BUS is. It was presented to 2 insurance law firms that were working with a pending claim from an OEM manufacturer (unnamed since it is still in court proceedings) . We've discovered by 2 Engineers at American Honda, Toyota, and FORD, that the 2006 model it was an early adaptation of a true CAN-BUS system. Just because you see some of the same J-protocols visually, doesn't mean that they are completely accessible and are defined as a fully-developed CAN-BUS system.. Plus, it only regulated to one to two parts of the vehicle, and not like the present day models which can access ALL 150-200 modules. Why? Because the TSX of that model year range doesn't possess them all or that many.

That's like saying you're a professional basketball player vs. being a high school player, simply because you made a few shots from the 3-point line. The naming convention for what the public understands does make a difference in interpretation.

Like you said, as long as it works for what you're asking, you're not worried. So.. why be worried about it's definition. Your issue is solved, right? ..
As usual, I'll let the young have the last word. Again, I'll make the appropriate changes. Thanks

Ryanthegreat1

I think you are confusing CAN-BUS protocol with feature set.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Ryanthegreat1

Gotta love Honda-Tech where even the mods are trolls.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Hey, call me what you want . .. But I've also seen hard-headed people on H-T not know when someone is trying to help them define something that is initially an inaccurate description to the public at large, simply because it hurts their mind to see anything otherwise than what's in front of them.

But.. I was right.. you absolutely must have the last word, sir.

Good luck to you, in your quest.

Fr33spirit

you sound like a man who canhelp me out. okay so before my car went into limp mode I knew nothing about any of this. I'd never even heard of CANbus and hadn't the 1st clue how to read a wiring diagram even. from all I've learned the past couple mts i can honestly say that I'm 100% with you on the argument this post turned into. sounded like 2 me that the person trying to say that there's no can bus in the earlier TSX just wanted 2 argue and sound smart but instead did the opposite.. anyway, i really hope you can help me bc I've been unable to find the info i need online to fix my 05 TSX which obv has something weird going on within the CAN bus. I'm trying to locate the PHYSICAL CAN bus wiring to take resistance measurements for issues I'm having with the electronic throttle control and the security system. please tell me you can help?!

Ryanthegreat1

Solid white and solid red wire on the PCM connector E is CAN bus. The forward most plug group as mounted in the TSX. The one NOT wrapped in the gray duct tape stuff.

I would send a picture but my manuals are all packed away right now.

Can also find it on the back of the instrument cluster, the back of the radio/nav unit. Same Red and White wires.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Again, strictly your opinion. My focus was on the definition for clarity in the future. (as opposed to Flex-ray or even ethernet which are currently being proposed according to IEEE engineering standards). I have no axe to grind and glad that Ryanthegreat1 was able to help. But clarity was needed in this instance.

Not to sound bold, but I've been a contributing member to H-T on modular systems and turbocharging for over 15 years on this forum alone, with more than proof-of-concept positive results on the record. If you think I'm trying to "sound" smart... Its because (at least in this area), I know what I'm talking about. Even make a portion of my living off of this information, by lecturing at Engineering departments at universities on the subject.

But again, glad he was able to help.

Aww, damn.. Now I'm the hypocrite trying to get the last word in.. ****.. oh well.

Euro-R_Spec_TSX

If OP still needs some CAN message specifics, I may be able to help. Just ask.

Ryanthegreat1

Thanks man, I have the CAN stuff for the 04-08 fully decoded and used on integration into a first gen insight with 06 S2000 cluster.

Have moved on to the 2011+ CAN stuff. Have a CR-Z fully decoded and can write data. Will be using for integration of a 12-15 Civic Si swap. Also a fun fact, GE8 Fit uses the same CAN messages at the CR-Z less the IMA stuff.

Fr33spirit

I just now noticed that you posted things from the electrical troubleshooting manual...which is something I've really been interested in (for my 05 TSX auto)...I'm just too broke 2 afford one!

Does it by chance tell the route of communication for the TAC module?! In other words..how does the communication flow in the throttle control circuits? For example (& I know this isn't how it actually goes but it's just a guess to help explain what I'm trying to say): the accelerator pedal position sensor sends info to PCM, PCM to TAC module, TAC module to throttle actuator motor and TP sensors, TP sensors back to PCM?! And since the VSA and ABS are also on the F-CAN circuit how would they affect the communication & when would info be sent to them?!

I've been trying to figure out a U0107 DTC which means "lost communication with TAC module & did the procedure for the DTC from the service manual but all of the voltages & continuity checks at the TAC module, TAC module relay & PCM are all normal. EVERYTHING IN THE LIST OF PROCEDURES HAS NORMAL READINGS..well except for one part that has you looking inside the throttle while someone else holds the accelerator pedal to WOT then turns the key to 2nd position..the throttle plate should open, close then open again but mine only opens all the way then closes really fast & won't open again. Resistance values are good as well. Replaced TAC module, the TAC module relay is good & there's nothing further to do (going by the procedure in the service manual) except for trying a new PCM.
Im just wondering if there's anything else I could test to make sure it's the PCM before going thru with buying one and having the immobilizer reset etc then possibly finding out the PCM isn't the prob either!

russian239

Do you have this info documented publicly anywhere? I am interested to OEM cluster happy with an aftermarket ECU via CAN

russian239

PS: so what is the simplest way to hook up to F-CAN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus physical wires since those are not exposed on the ODB-II port ?

russian239

https://www.sans.org/reading-room/wh...ineering-37825 answers that question

Luckily for hackers and vehicle security researchers, the TPMS control module is conveniently located just below the steering column and can be easily disconnected. By disconnecting the TPMS control module, it is possible to hardwire into the TPMS module’s CAN connector. Figure 11 below shows what this process looks like:

HondaDudlinger

Hey, sorry for activating an old post, but I am very interested in the CAN informations of the 04-08 TSX, I am from Germany (so please donīt be mad about my mishaps in the text, english is not my native language) and I'm pretty new to the CAN-Stuff, but Iīm usually not afraid of electronics as most of the mechanics/builders/car enthusiasts that I know. I am owning an 2003 Honda Accord CL7 K20a6 (EDM) which basically is a first gen TSX. So, I came up with the idea of fitting a K24a3 (CL9, just like the K24a2 out of an USDM car) and put a big turbo on it, nothing special. BUT I always want to do something out of the ordinary, so I am going to fit a VAG DQ250 DSG on said engine, since thats a "Automatic" (DCT) Transmission you need a TCU to control it, in my case I already got myself a MaxxEcu Race (as well as all of the stuff I need to build the car) which is able to control the engine and transmission at the same time. Since I donīt want to use an aftermarket dash and Iīm kinda afraid that the CAN-Bus will not work fine when the Ecu is missing, I need some information about the CAN-Bus, the MaxxEcu is able to write and read on the CAN-Bus, but of course it cannot do so without any information what it has to write/read as far as I understand. It would be a great help if you still have the Informations of the CAN-Bus and could somehow help me out with my problem. Thank you in advance
Greets from Germany

Euro-R_Spec_TSX

You need to monitor the CAN bus messages and see what CAN IDs are being used. If you don't have a CAN interface, then check out Peak Instruments, a German company that makes them.
See this thread for related info: https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-...-help-3365726/

HondaDudlinger

Thank you very much for the quick reply, thats kind of what I wanted to avoid, yesterday I've actually found the thread you attached, but still huge thanks (also for the uploaded gauge cluster CAN data) Since I've never done sniffing before (I actually never messed with CAN-Bus before, just MOST-Bus) and I can't estimate the time it would take (also for me to learn how to understand the gathered data) I thought it would be a good idea to ask if anybody already has all the Data to save me the effort and also sadly at the moment there's no engine in my accord, because the swap is actually already in progress. But I guess I'll finish the swap, then rip everything apart again and put it back together in stock conditions, then sniff, then rip everything apart again and then finish the swap.. nobody said it will be easy i guess lol

Euro-R_Spec_TSX

You don't need the engine to check the CAN IDs, but you need the ECU and wiring connected. The ECU will send periodic messages, as detailed in the thread I provided.
Honda may have used the same CAN IDs for Accord CL7 and TSX CL9, in which case you have all the info you need in that other thread.