BlkB16aEJ

Ohh i see, wow thanks for all the help guys, so the best thing for me is to keep the tranny oil fresh and change it about every 30k and just keep all my service record. I will see how it goes from there.

NSI S4

It's 2nd gear...


Safety Recall: CL and TL Automatic Transmission 2nd Gear Inspection
(Supersedes 04-020, Safety Recall: CL and TL Automatic Transmission Second Gear Inspection, dated
November 10, 2004)
BACKGROUND
Certain operating conditions can result in heat buildup
between the countershaft and secondary shaft 2nd
gears in the A/T. Without enough oil flow to dissipate
heat, prolonged operation under these conditions can
eventually result in decreased material strength. In
higher mileage vehicles, this can result in gear tooth
chipping or, in very rare cases, gear breakage.
In most cases, A/T noise will indicate a problem,
however it is possible for the A/T to become locked
without warning. A locked A/T could result in a crash.

Quoted straight from the service bulletin

BlkB16aEJ

That's what i thought... b.c if it was also 3rd then why didnt they install an oil jet kit for both gears??? Good looking out dude. I hope your right.

YeuEmMaiMai

ur confused man........

It is the 2nd PHYSICAL gear that overheats and can chip a tooth, that is why they install the oil jet kit. If the PHYSICAL GEAR chips a tooth, the whole transaxle locks up and the front wheels cease to turn and you are screwed if you are going down the highway. This is what the RECALL COVERS as indicated in the above service bulletin

That is NOT to be confused with the 2/3 gear shift problems that occur becuase there is insufficient lubrication of the 3rd gear clutch pack. This results in the fluid repeatedly turning brown and eventually the clutch pack gives out and then the car will suddenly downshift into second gear and stay there. That means if you are driving 70mph down the fwy and the trans fails you instantly redline the engine and engine braking slows the car down suddenly. This is what the extended warranty covers for 7 years 9 months or 109K (114K from odometer settlement) miles from the "In service date"

In case you are wondering where I got the information from it would be the NHSTB report excerpts are in this thread titled Summary of transmission problems

http://cl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440072

Transmission settlement

http://www.hondatransmissionsettleme.../php/login.php

Odometer settlement

http://hondaodometerclassaction.com/


Owner's link for MY car

Your 2002 Acura is included in the 00-04 CL & TL A/T RECALL Campaign. Description 00-04 CL & TL A/T RECALL
Date 06/29/2004
Type Recall Customer Letter
Status Fixed


Your 2002 Acura is included in the 2000-03 TRANS WARRANTY EXT Campaign. Description 2000-03 TRANS WARRANTY EXT
Date 09/27/2002
Type Recall Customer Letter
Status Open

see the difference ?

NSI S4

I'm not confused, originally he was asking about a recall. The only recall for these transmissions is the 2nd gear inspection, where we inspect 2nd gear for heat damage.


The 3rd gear issue isn't over heating Its a lubrication issue that causes 3rd gear clutch pack to wear prematurely. Its not just isolated to 3rd gear though. In many cases i've had transmissions come in with all different kinds of shifting issues, i've had them come in with no reverse...

(bulletin on 3rd gear)
3rd Gear Clutch Pack is Worn
SYMPTOM
The symptoms of a worn 3rd gear clutch pack include,
but are not limited to
• No upshifts or downshifts
• Slippage or flaring on upshifts or downshifts
(primarily in 3rd gear)
• Erratic or excessively harsh shifts
• Slow or delayed gear engagement
• The MIL is on and/or the D5 indicator is flashing
PROBABLE CAUSE
The 3rd gear clutch pack in the automatic transmission
is worn.

YeuEmMaiMai

lol like I said, go read the report, it has more knowledge about what happens with the third gear than you do...........

The very first reply I made in this thread was

"there is NO TRANS RECALL for failiure of the unit only a recall for 2nd gear overheat issue."

I have made my self clear I know what I am talking about.........THERE IS NO 3rd GEAR PROBLEM there IS A THIRD GEAR CLUTCH PACK PROBLEM due to insufficient lubrication (again stated by the REPORT) this causes the fluid temp to reach in excess of 315F...(Again in the REPORT). this causes the clutch pack to wear since the fluid has lost it's lubrication/protective properties.

Acura was readily able to reproduce the problem by repeatedly shifting the car bewteen 2-3 and then 3-2.......

I just love it when the acura tech who has absolutely no knowledge about what causes these units to fail outside of what acura's tsb says.....meanwhile there is a whole NHSTB report that goes into exquisite detail regarding the causes of additional failures....including the fact that the trans fluid does INDEED overheat.............the case was closed when acura extended the warranty and showed that they had taken steps to correct the isse??

but hey I'm game

tell me why on my 2002 CLS i was changing the fluid on an aveage of every 7-8K for a car that was 90% highway miles......... 40K 52K 58K, and 65K?. Finallly at 70K the [D5] started to blink and it was game over......

YeuEmMaiMai

corrections made to increase lubrication and to reduce thermal loading of clutch

Modification #1

A. Jan 25, 2002 for Countershaft; April 5, 2002 for Oil Guide Plate.
B. Tolerance on diameter of hole in oil supply area of the countershaft component was changed. Tolerance on outside diameter of oil supply area of the oil guide plate was changed.
C. To increase the supply volume of lubricating oil to third clutch on countershaft.
D. Counter shaft: 23220-P7W (Previous Part 23220-P7W-020)
Oil Guide Plate 23225-P7W-000 (Part Number correct?)
E. Not withdrawn from sales.
F. August 2002.
G. Interchangeable


Modification #2

A. May 3, 2002
B. Hydraulic pressure timing characteristics at shift were changed to reduce the thermal loading of the clutch.
C. To reduce heat generation in the third clutch during hydraulic pressure switching at shifts.
D. 37820-PJE-A62 (Previous Part: 37820-PJE-A61)
37820-PJE-L62 (Previous Part: 37820-PJE-L61)
37820-PGE-A58 (Previous Part: 37820-PGK-A57)
E. Not withdrawn from sales
F. June 2002 for 37820-PJE-A62/L62; May 2002 for 37820-PGE-A58
G. Interchangeable

Page 516:

Changes in lubrication rate and clutch clearance.

A graph with Clutch clearance (y-axis) vs. Lubrication rate (cc/min) (x-axis) is shown for various gears.

“Clutch clearance limit to ensure no flare-up of engine = 1.4mm”

“CO-S needs lubrication to third clutch at the rate of 1700cc/min.”

Note: production issues allowed for sloppy tolerances for some of the cars. The “SLOP” varies by build date and dice tossing. It turns out the clearance is critical along with some other things. The flow rate assists in removing heat from the clutch packs. To little flow rate and the clutch packs get over 360 degrees.

Page 522
Clutch Q/A while Shifting

Table with temp rise and other stats for WOT second-to-third, WOT third-to-second (kick-down), and closed throttle 5-to-3 MANUAL downshift.

ON WOT 2-to-3 upshift, the delta T was 100 degrees C
ON WOT 3-to-2 downshift, the delta T was 23 degrees C
ON Closed throttle 5-to-3 manual downshift, the delta T was 111 degrees C.

“* Clutch Q/A is not too high and is judged to be at acceptable level.”

Danny Alves

Hey guys do you guys think I can still get my 2000 Acura TL serviced for that recall

Waxman195

that ain't worth a f... Or a pot to **** in