Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (jimbob)
 

It's what the article I read in F1 Magazine (or whatever it was called, some English publication I read at Barnes & Noble last night). The advantage is, it lowers the car's center of gravity.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (KJR)
 

what ever dude, i dont really give a rats ass. Someone asks me about F1 i say i hate it so i dont know about it, just certain facts about how much it sucks.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (B-DIDDYR2K)
 

Wow - all this aggression against a sport you cannot even see is the US unless you try hard. Were you beaten up by an F1 driver when you were a kid?

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (B-DIDDYR2K)
 

I can see why some people don't like F1. Yes the rules changes are somewhat arbitrary at times and I think the competition would be better if they went with spec parts for some components of the car so teams could focus on engine and chassis development instead of having to worry about all of this wild shit like automatic trannies, 2 way telemetry, and traction control.

On the other hand NASCAR is a scripted four wheel circus. Its a great spectator sport but come on, you only get fined money and not position for cheating? The wing settings get changed from race to race to keep all of the cars together? Minimal penalties for deliberate and dangerous contact? Spare me. Then there's the whole continuous left hand turn thing.

I'm not saying there's a conspiracy to skew the results one way or another but there is definitely a conspiracy to have action (crashes) and aggressive driver behavior. Do you see drivers in any other series getting into fist fights for the camera? Do you see people hitting each other in the pits? No.

I won't doubt that NASCAR drivers are skilled because obviously they are. But I find it hard for anyone to extoll its virtues over F1. F1 aint perfect, some of the drivers are bitches, but no more so than some of the dumb redneck NASCAR drivers.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (jimbob)
 

Well what I'm saying is about JV is what about every F1 publication has put out that David Richards team princepal of BAR said if JV doesn't do better he could be getting on thin ice. Main reasons because he always makes excuses Panis never complains as much as JV and I think thats probably getting on DR nerves.

Actually things like engine degrees or new technology is let known to the public when the brand new cars come out. But they won't tell you exactly what they do or how much better they are but they always give general ideas of specs of the engines. These days it more of aero packages that tend to give alot teams advantages but these tend to be found out in first 4-5 races what they are.

Honda could get to the front if all the front guys from Ferrari, McLaren and Williams wreck and Sauber and Renault and Toyota has problems. Which if you think that doesn't leave much of rest of the field except Jag and Arrows and Minardi and everyone is front of Minardi as they have the lowest tech F1 chassis out there. Though Arrows only has 50million dallor budget which is smaller then Minardi's but there cars using the same Cosworth DF engines are still faster then the Jags only differences is chassis's and drivers. But hell I can see why there doing no testing now with only 50 million to play with after building 4 chassis and buying 4 engines and paying personel and drivers theres not much left. There Orange sponsour is godsend for them to keep going.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (norice)
 

lets just say i had a run in with Michael Sucmacher when I visited Monte Carlo sometime ago. Tell the guy you think he is a great driver he basically tells me to fuck off. I was 19 at the time man. I loved watching that son of a bitch drive his fuckin car around. Then when I get the chance to say so, he tells me to fuck off in so many words. The only "cool" F1 driver is Villnuve. Why? because he out drove Schummacher one time and all Schumacher did was bitch and say that passing on the outside it a dangerous move and Villnuve should be disqualified. The guy got beat and he trid to get the action DQed. That and my run in with him have made me see that F1 sucks and the Schummacher is a whiny hoighty toughty little bitch!!!!

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (JMU R1)
 

You where doing ok until you said dumb rednecks. Why stereotype Nascar drivers not all of them are the same. If some F1 drivers are bitches then sure enough there Nascar drivers that are bitches as well...end of story.

I'm sure when FIA goes to the one engine rules like Nascar in 04' then there will be alot more lead changes due to engine failures which can happen in certain climates because you can not always test for everytype weather the car may see except what you believe the weather maybe in.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (Racer-X)
 

JV is a bit arrogant sometimes. He's a good driver, but he does seem complain too much. Honda really needs a breakthrough. It's sad seeing a company like that not do well. Toyota has never been in F1 and on the first try, they've done pretty well I must say.

Thanks... I didn't know they are public knowledge. I'd read an article about it a long time ago about the angles being very top secret in F1 racing. Not sure if it was misinformation or just outdated info.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (Racer-X)
 

On second thought dumb rednecks is in fact an unfair stereotype. But yes, some of the F1 drivers are bitches. R. Schumacher whines too much, JPM talks too much trash, and M. Schumacher is a prima donna. I'm sure some of the other drivers are not so cool too but since they don't win we don't get to hear some of their foolishness.

ADDEND: I was not suggesting all NASCAR drivers are fools either, if all of the drivers were fools NASCAR would not last long.


[Modified by JMU R1, 11:22 PM 3/31/2002]

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (JMU R1)
 

Wow what great conversation about F1. As usual after a F1 race I have cooled down a little and am naively hopeful that Honda will at least earn points at the next race. Come to find out Panis had gearbox problems, JV had ECM issues and Fisi had a traction control malfunction and some type of engine gremlin. So who knows what is next? Can only hope for the best. http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsmile.gif

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (HONDAF1)
 

now here is my point. Yes technology is great, but all of those problems can be avoided. Use an actual clutch and you eliminate a lot of potential gearbox probs, use a reliable and tested engine vs the brand new run for 20 minutes in perfect conditions motor you eliminate cpu probs, make it so the motors arent so damn powerful and you dont need traction control.

F1 tries to make itself so super tech that even some of the best builders in the world cant make a setup to compete!!! These guys are some of the best no doubt, but come on!! They cant use a reliable motor because it isnt fast enough. yet if they try out there new motor, they run the risk or blowing it up. So they are stuck between a rock and a hard palce just to compete. How is that entertaining? to me it isnt. If F1 would make a standard for a set # years and then let the teams develop the same motor and make it more reliable then the sport MIGHT be more entertaining. Then by the last year, all the engines are evenly matched up and you have a super competative season rather then a new prototype engine every race or 2.. ohhh so special. Id rather watch something slow and more reliable to produce a better show than the so called pinnicle of technology as my friend says. I say might because the drivers are still punks. They need to come off their high horses too.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 team suck! (HONDAF1)
 

It is rumored that Ferrari spends in excess of 300 million http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif including their wind-tunnel which is also rumored to operate 365 days a year http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (KJR)
 

Eh? i never knew there was a NSR750 (I STRONGLY DOUBT IT)
Isnt it the NSR500?

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (B-DIDDYR2K)
 

I would guess that most F1 fans follow F1 closer than most other rece fans follow their favorite series. It isn't just about the cars going around the track, it's about all of the development, technology, strategy, testing, personalities, history, etc. Most F1 fans are very knowledgeable about their sport and enjoy following developments off the track too. And the technology is amazing. Those cars are more sophisticated than most of the fighter planes in the USAF.

Yes, sometimes Schuey can be a little stuck up, but maybe that's what 30M a year will do to you. He isn't the first "athelete" who is good, and knows he's good. Most of the drivers are pretty cool, though.

And no, F1 does not rely on the US for its income. US dollars spent on the sport are insignificant compared to the rest of the world.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck! (HONDAF1)
 

Honda should spend their money on the consumer products that they're putting out, because they're not gonna win F1 this season with Sato messing up in every race.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (Floyd)
 

I thought it was 30-35 mil recently too, but I hear he's getting paid 80-85 mil now.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (manveer)
 

I believe it is 85 million with endorsements.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 team suck! (Prelussion)
 

actually it is operated 365 days a year, 24 hours a day most days in shift work.shumi is the highest paid athleate in the world.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (B-DIDDYR2K)
 

I got to meet J.P. Montoya a few years back when he raced for Target Chip Ganassi...He comes across as an asshole, but he's really a nice guy.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck! (HONDAF1)
 

Remember it took Honda a few years in CART to dominate. In F1 they haven't done shit since the great Aryton Senna drove for them. They took some time off and will be dominant again in a few years. http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (Raz1983)
 

Then your strong doubts are wrong. There was an NSR750 was sold outside the US. It went for i think 50Gs(possibly more) and had full carbon fiber fairinga along with the oval piston motor and tons of other super trick stuff on it.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (B-DIDDYR2K)
 

it took BMW AND Williams 2 years to run with Ferrari and stomp Mclaren Mercedes.
2 years and they outpower the Ferrari. That says a lot about how far behind Honda is in F1.

another problem at Honda is that they should have gone back to McLaren and kissed their ass to repartner with them instead of choosing a midpack team (Jordan) and an unproven team (BAR). Frentzen won 2 races for Jordan in the Mugen Honda 3 yr ago and ended up 3rd in the championship behind Irvine and Hakkinen. At least Trulli ran at the front last year (if he left thestarting line) in the Jordan before some electronics glitch or hydraulic failure happened or the tranny went or the engine grenaded in flames. He at least got the front row in qualifying at Monaco and got some 4th-6th places. This year they are running 14th -19th place!! They're going backwards!! Both Honda teams!

Oh and there's the Malcolm Oastler fiasco:

Oastler really messed up the design of last year's car. They said the suspension pick up points to the tub flexed so much that the car would understeer and then suddenly transition oversteer all in one corner! It was so unpredictable how the suspension behaved that it would do one thing one day and then another thing another day. Suspension corrections can't cure a problem if the goalposts keep moving. It was made pretty public how much Oastler f*cked up the BAR design. JV called the car a stillborn in preseason of last year. Honda apparently discovered the flex problem just before Monza last year and partially corrected it. This is why they brought out a new chassis at that anniversary race at Monza...under the disguise of a commemorative chassis when in fact it was a correction of a blatant engineering f*ck up. When that was made public at the start of this year, you knew the writing was on the wall for Malcolm.

Something is definitely wrong at the top management for Honda...something has changed. You can tell the bland police and beancounters have taken over from the hardcore racers. Look at the RSX suspension and the "new" NSX and you see what I mean.....Mr Honda is rolling in his grave....

F1 http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/h-emblem1.gif http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (Michael Delaney)
 

If all what you say is true that is really sad. But what would be the point of putting in 210 million if your "heart" was not in it, other than the obvious marketing potential. But what marketing of Honda is it really though, if you keep getting your ass handed to you by Sauber and Minardi. I believe the whole Honda F1 effort went bad when the guy in charge (sorry don't remember his name or position) died a few years back. After that they decided against a sole effort and teamed with BAR. In all it just plain sucks for us Honda fans, especially now that Honda is leaving CART after this season.

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (HONDAF1)
 

Isn't CART basically going to become a nonentity soon anyway?

Re: OT: Honda Formula 1 teams suck (manveer)
 

Yeah eventually it will merge with the IRL. Meaning low tech, which Honda does not want to be involved with anyways. On the bright side when Honda was successful in F1 in the late 80's early 90's their sole auto racing budget (well atleast the majority) and passion was devoted to F1. Probably a stretch to make the correlation between the two, but what the hell! I will sacrifice CART for worldwide success in F1. http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif