Here is the deal. I have an ongoing problem of the CEL coming and going. Code 45. system too rich or lean. I ran by autozone to have their code reader confirm that it is system too rich. I replaced the primary O2 sensor and reset the ecu. About every 25 miles or so the CEL will come and go.

Using the Helms manual and following the diagnostic flow chart, I checked the valve clearance and had to adjust them - it was off a little.

My concern is that when I pulled the spark plugs, they show signs of burning Too Hot, which would be Lean, correct ?

Here are some pics of the plugs and a few others.




What would cause this to the plugs? they are the NGK, as far as i know it is the correct heat range and factory replacement plugs.




Modified by ITR 1102 at 6:45 PM 10/5/2005

 

according to your spark plugs you are running too LEAN not too rich

 

Any mods? More specifically fuel system mods?

 

Code 45 is "System Too Lean or Too Rich malfunction in the fuel monitoring systems".

The plugs make it clear that you're running too lean, not too rich.

Do not use the rear bumper as a tuning indicator, as you could be running rich every time you're not at WOT. In that case the bumper would be black, even though the car may be dangerously lean at WOT.

Who tuned your car and with what? It sounds like they may have only tuned the car for WOT.

 

Where those plugs pulled after the car idled for awhile? or were they pulled after a WOT run... with immediate shutdown and plug check?

Plugs will read the last condition they encounter... checking ASAP is important.

 

the key here is that those plugs look dangerously LEAN

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the key here is that those plugs look dangerously LEAN</TD></TR></TABLE>

The key word being highlighted.

 

Any idea to correct this? Does it need to be tuned, even without internal mods(not sure of the original poster's set-up)?

 

When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced?

If it's clogged, the system will try to dump fuel, but it won't be getting through.

 

my bumper always looks like that. I believe it is from oil burn.

 

I will fix the first pic that isnt showing up, it shows one brown plug, and the other three are all white

I know code 45 means either too rich or too lean, but i went and had the code read with a reader, which confirmed it being too rich.

The car is stock with 46k miles on it. I have not replaced the fuel filter yet, but have an extra one in the garage.

I have only had the car for like 3 or 4 weeks, so this problem existed before I got the car, I assume the owner just reset the ecu so I didnt know there were any codes.

The previous owner used to have a Field vtec controller on it, and at some point in time the Apexi power FC. But i dont know in which order or for how long.


Where do I go from here?

 

change plugs, drive for 200 miles the normal way you usually do and pull them. If they look the same you have issues to deal with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR 1102 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I know code 45 means either too rich or too lean, but i went and had the code read with a reader, which confirmed it being too rich.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


the condition of your plugs do not lie

please reread what Reid wrote and try to comprehend what he is saying

 

and here is somthing that I found yesterday as well. I know the pic isnt great, but I dont know how to use my camera all that good.

When doing the valve adjustment, on the head, by every valve, there are like scratches / gouges. WTF is that, and how bad is it? It looks almost like someone went at it with a dremel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR 1102 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will fix the first pic that isnt showing up, it shows one brown plug, and the other three are all white

</TD></TR></TABLE>

you do not have a BROWN plug amongst the 4, they are all the same

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


the condition of your plugs do not lie

please reread what Reid wrote and try to comprehend what he is saying
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Right, I understand. The car is stock tho, it has not been tuned with anything. Would this indicate a bad ECU?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR 1102 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The previous owner used to have a Field vtec controller on it, and at some point in time the Apexi power FC. But i don't know in which order or for how long.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That right there could have been your problem, If the owner took off the items right before you bought the car and the car/ecu were not tuned properly then your plugs would look the way they do now.

replace. drive. evaluate.

 

how likely is it that the valve clearance could cause it to run rich or lean?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR 1102 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and here is somthing that I found yesterday as well. I know the pic isnt great, but I dont know how to use my camera all that good.

When doing the valve adjustment, on the head, by every valve, there are like scratches / gouges. WTF is that, and how bad is it? It looks almost like someone went at it with a dremel.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is normal, that is the factory getting rid of the flashing and sharp edges in the head

As far as the spark plugs go, my opion would be clogged fuel filter.

 

Please dont use plug reading as a way of tuning.
Its not all that accurate.I dont care what anyone says. i can show you plugs that looked just like that in all types of conditions.

You wanna know for sure?&gt; Get on a wideband rather then taking advice from people that are guessing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Please dont use plug reading as a way of tuning.
Its not all that accurate.I dont care what anyone says. i can show you plugs that looked just like that in all types of conditions.

You wanna know for sure?&gt; Get on a wideband rather then taking advice from people that are guessing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Replace fuel filter if life is questionable

Check ECU harness to make sure it's not a hack job

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tweakmeister &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Replace fuel filter if life is questionable

Check ECU harness to make sure it's not a hack job</TD></TR></TABLE>

going to change it out now.
he told me it was soldered and each wire was heat wrapped back. I am almost afraid to look though.

come to think of it, he said when the power fc was on it, it had a map sensor code, but that went away when the stock ecu was back on. No relation I suppose ?

 

Yes valve adjustment can cause a rich or lean condition.

 

check distributor timing? also, check distributor rotor, but even that don't throw a code..