I have a 00 GS-R with I/IM/H/E ect. If I put a test pipe, and a Mugen twin loop on my car will that hurt or improve my gas mileage? My car has been converted to OBD-1, so the O2 sensor is not going to matter. Thanks for any help.

 

It will hurt your gas milage with the sacrafice of more power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HONDA RR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It will hurt your gas milage with the sacrafice of more power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why will it hurt gas mileage?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HONDA RR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It will hurt your gas milage with the sacrafice of more power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'd like to know the reason behind this as well....

I ran a test pipe on my car for 3 years. My gas mileage actually stayed the same or slightly improved. Sure the tone of the exhaust got deeper/louder, but performance wise, I could feel a big difference in throttle response!

only down side, if your running a chipped ecu, whenever you come to a stop, you'll start smelling all the fumes, causing you and your passengers to smell like you've been working inside of a garage all day! LOL

 

I have heard that if you install a Mugen twin loop it makes your exaust almost stock sounding except for WOT. Will a test pipe and the twin loop sound okay? What do you think?

 

twin loop is very quiet. i've heard that it can get loud at wot though.

 

Twin loop is great beacause it is free flowing like a straight through loud *** muffler but passes twice so it won't make you deaf. I don't have personal experience with a test pipe, but i think it will make your exhaust louder. I think you should try it and find out! then let us know what you think.

 

It is a violation of Federal EPA law to remove a converter on a "street" car regardless of where you live.

The minimal gain (if any) would only be at the upper RPM range, and you are losing low end as a consequence.

Oh and iH8RICERZ, it doesn't matter if you have a chipped ECU or not. I have run "off road" with a straight pipe and the smell is there no matter what you are running. The smell you mentioned is all the cancer causing emissions you are breathing in from it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wraith_G2IC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh and iH8RICERZ, it doesn't matter if you have a chipped ECU or not. I have run "off road" with a straight pipe and the smell is there no matter what you are running. The smell you mentioned is all the cancer causing emissions you are breathing in from it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I already knew that with even the stock ecu, you could still smell this "cancer causing emissions", but I was stating that with a chipped ecu or if your car is running rich in general, the smell is a bit more intense that it'll stick to your clothes from just sittin in the car. But then again, nothing is healthy for you now adays.

As for the original post question...do what you want. Even though if it is illegal, do it at your own risk. According to the California law books, any type of modification/alteration done to the exhaust system is considered illegal

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iH8RICERZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As for the original post question...do what you want. Even though if it is illegal, do it at your own risk. According to the California law books, any type of modification/alteration done to the exhaust system is considered illegal </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I dont live in Cali, I live in TN and the area that I live in does not have any emissions. So you are pretty open to do whatever the hell you want. I am now thinking of putting a catco cat on with the mugen twin loop. As of right now my car is still the way is was when i bought it from a ricer so it is loud and sounds like ****. But thanks for the help so far. Anymore suugestions?

 

BlackDC2_05 - The Catco should serve you well. There are several threads on here (H-T) that have real test data and flow rates of different converters.

On another note...... Please understand that just because TN doesn't require a state smog check, this does NOT provide a "free pass". State laws have nothing to do with Federal laws. In terms of laws: Fed &gt; State

 

Um yea you might want to take a really hard look at the federal laws, I have been told that you can be fined several thousand $$ for removing your cat regardless of what state you live in, and all it takes is one state trooper that knows his **** to totally ruin your day. I believe that's part of an EPA clean air act. I could be wrong because I haven't been busted, just what I've heard. Oh and BTW, you have OBD2 so you have 2 O2 sensors, you're going to constantly be throwing codes if you get rid of your cat.

 

He said he converted his car to OBD1. So he shouldn't have a CEL from that, BUT......

This is also a violation of the Federal EPA laws since it involves removing an "emissions control device". IE - the o2 sensor. According to the EPA's web site the fine is at least $2,500 per violation! One document I read (could have been a typo) said the fine could be "no more than $25,000".

 

Okay well I guess I will go with the catco. Thanks H-T

 

Oh, I missed that OBD 1 change over, oops, but yea I knew it was some huge fine, I had been told $10,000 for removing a cat but I thought I must have heard wrong but now I guess that sounds about right. Yea F it just get a high flow cat from summit or something like that and you'll be straight, not worth the risk..... to me at least.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wraith_G2IC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He said he converted his car to OBD1. So he shouldn't have a CEL from that, BUT......

This is also a violation of the Federal EPA laws since it involves removing an "emissions control device". IE - the o2 sensor. According to the EPA's web site the fine is at least $2,500 per violation! One document I read (could have been a typo) said the fine could be "no more than $25,000". </TD></TR></TABLE>

r u serious?! that is some b.s. man if that is true.

 

You don't have to believe me, go look for yourself: http://www.epa.gov

There is a reason 99.9% of exhaust shops will not remove converters........ They don't want that kind of liability.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlackDC2_05 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay well I guess I will go with the catco. Thanks H-T</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd recommend checking out SMS Products if you're looking for a replacement cat. David has tested quite a few different brands and models, and should be able to provide you with a durable, high-flowing unit that will bolt right on.

 

you could just drill out the internals of ur stock cat....
so even if a trooper who knows his stuff pulls u over.... he can look under ur car and still see a cat....

 

After installing my test pipe i noticed a big difference in power but i also had an older, clogged up cat. The smell is a small price to pay for the power. Good luck!

 

IMO It's not worth removing the cat for the 3-5hp you might see over a quality converter I.E. carsound/catco. Emissions go to ****. You'll smell unburned fuel. Not to mention I think hondas(or any 4 banger for that matter) without a cat sound very ricey. Just loud and pingy sounding.
Thats my 2 cents

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegrasAreBest &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">twin loop is very quiet. i've heard that it can get loud at wot though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have actually owned a Mugen Twin loop full catback for 2 weeks on my ITR. I went from a ctr b-pipe and spoon axleback to a full jdm (2.5") mugen twin loop catback.

I have to say that it is super quiet, which was the only thing I actually liked about it. The exhaust IMO sucks. It was sooo restrictive. My car lost so much power after I installed it. It did not pull as hard as it used to... NO it was not that the high exhaust sound was gone. The car was weaker for sure.

This was verified by myself and other friends that did not believe me either. SO I took it off, and sold it 2 weeks later. If I want a restrictive exhaust and a quiet sound, I'll just save money and go back to stock

This is simply my experience with the exhaust. Maybe others will claim this as false, but this is not a "a friend once told me..." thing. I actually ran this exhaust and learned my lesson about "hype". I'm back to my ctr b-pipe and spoon axleback and loving it. Maybe I'll go to a t1r b-pipe later

Just helping the cause.

About the testpipe, usually you do use a little more gas as most people beat on the car a little more when you install a testpipe because it seems to rev a lot smoother. It also seems like you have to give it more gas to get it rolling, maybe because of the lack of backpressure. It's close to the same feeling as going open header.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sack Master &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMO It's not worth removing the cat for the 3-5hp you might see over a quality converter I.E. carsound/catco. Emissions go to ****. You'll smell unburned fuel. Not to mention I think hondas(or any 4 banger for that matter) without a cat sound very ricey. Just loud and pingy sounding.
Thats my 2 cents</TD></TR></TABLE>

I second this. I did the testpipe thing for a while, and got tired of switching it off to make the car quieter sometimes or for emissions. The difference is noticable, but the sound overshadows it somewhat.

I'd rather save the trees

I'm running a carsound jdm 2.5" cat right now and it's a nice compromise if you want better flow.

 

I just installed my skunk2 test pipe today. Ive been waiting forever, JHP sent me the wrong one first , so i had to wait almost 3 weeks to get the right one. I love it! I do have comptech exhuast. It is still very quit. Of coarse louder than the stock cat with comptech, but not too loud at all. No raspiness at all! (Yay I was scared about that!!!) That classic comptech deep throaty sound. Just a tad louder, and a some nice pops when downshifting . It barley smells too. Not very noticable at all. Sometimes i get a little wiff of it, but its not strong. The power increase was pretty nice. Moves a little nicer at higher rpm's. But the best part was the throttle response. A little more crisp. I just smogged my car about 2 months ago. Ill probably have a new car by my next smog time. So of coarse i saved the cat, to put it back on if needed. Easy install. Im not to worried about cops. Since its not that much louder. I seriously think itll still be within the legal DB limit. But yes, i am very aware of the fines. I just decided to jump in and take the chance(i live in california, so emmisions is a bitch). I have about 8 friends with test pipes on there cars. One has a civic, 350z, nsx, mustang cobra, ect. And luckily they havnt had any trouble with the law yet, and there cars are much louder than mine. And that 350z smells so much with those cats off!! Sound so nice though.

 

im running a test pipe and it sounds just fine, but then again, the turbo eats up a lot of sound

catco may be a good option for a hi flow cat

or some resonators to reduce noise...